1 00:00:02,810 --> 00:00:00,589 [Music] 2 00:00:05,020 --> 00:00:02,820 this is Jim semithan and you are 3 00:00:09,830 --> 00:00:05,030 listening to that UFO podcast 4 00:00:14,870 --> 00:00:12,350 hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO 5 00:00:17,510 --> 00:00:14,880 podcast my name is Andy and a huge show 6 00:00:19,609 --> 00:00:17,520 for you as we move into October I'd like 7 00:00:21,650 --> 00:00:19,619 to welcome a gentleman with more than 25 8 00:00:24,470 --> 00:00:21,660 years of experience in the senior 9 00:00:26,570 --> 00:00:24,480 intelligence service and a co-founder of 10 00:00:29,150 --> 00:00:26,580 two of the stars and currently it's 11 00:00:31,189 --> 00:00:29,160 serving Vice President of Operations Mr 12 00:00:33,229 --> 00:00:31,199 Jim semivan Jim welcome to the podcast 13 00:00:36,110 --> 00:00:33,239 well thank you thank you very much Andy 14 00:00:38,270 --> 00:00:36,120 for having me I appreciate it uh lesson 15 00:00:39,709 --> 00:00:38,280 you are on the bucket list of guests I 16 00:00:42,709 --> 00:00:39,719 wanted on the podcast so it's another 17 00:00:44,450 --> 00:00:42,719 name I can tick off along the way so uh 18 00:00:46,130 --> 00:00:44,460 let's get right into this your time is 19 00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:46,140 precious lots of people want to hear 20 00:00:49,670 --> 00:00:48,000 from you and I want to give the listener 21 00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:49,680 questions at the end as much time as 22 00:00:54,709 --> 00:00:52,860 possible as well uh Jim for anyone who 23 00:00:57,170 --> 00:00:54,719 isn't too familiar with your background 24 00:00:59,569 --> 00:00:57,180 do you mind just giving us a cliff notes 25 00:01:04,250 --> 00:00:59,579 version of that for the listeners 26 00:01:06,469 --> 00:01:04,260 yeah uh I'm uh a pretty normal life I I 27 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:06,479 grew up in northeastern Ohio 28 00:01:09,830 --> 00:01:09,180 uh went to Ohio State 29 00:01:12,710 --> 00:01:09,840 um 30 00:01:15,890 --> 00:01:12,720 I got I I grew up in a Catholic 31 00:01:20,030 --> 00:01:15,900 household I might I might might say uh 32 00:01:22,310 --> 00:01:20,040 two uh I uh went to Ohio State got a ba 33 00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:22,320 in English literature and then went back 34 00:01:27,530 --> 00:01:24,479 thinking I wanted to be a teacher I got 35 00:01:29,330 --> 00:01:27,540 a BS in secondary education and then it 36 00:01:31,910 --> 00:01:29,340 was I decided no no I really want to be 37 00:01:34,429 --> 00:01:31,920 a poet uh and a writer so I went to San 38 00:01:37,850 --> 00:01:34,439 Francisco to join their writing program 39 00:01:39,770 --> 00:01:37,860 uh at San Francisco State and uh I 40 00:01:41,450 --> 00:01:39,780 graduated from there with a with an M.A 41 00:01:43,609 --> 00:01:41,460 in English literature but I I didn't 42 00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:43,619 graduate in the in the uh writing 43 00:01:47,630 --> 00:01:46,079 program I wasn't that good I mean it was 44 00:01:50,690 --> 00:01:47,640 a good writer but I wasn't a good poet 45 00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:50,700 so so um and then uh it was really right 46 00:01:55,969 --> 00:01:53,460 after that that I uh adjoined uh I was 47 00:01:59,210 --> 00:01:55,979 gonna get one for my doctorate um 48 00:02:02,510 --> 00:01:59,220 uh but decided back in that day uh this 49 00:02:05,330 --> 00:02:02,520 is around 80 81. uh you know most most 50 00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:05,340 uh English professors were driving taxi 51 00:02:10,669 --> 00:02:08,399 cabs so I opted for uh the intelligence 52 00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:10,679 service for CIA and then joined them and 53 00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:13,500 I believe 1982. 54 00:02:18,949 --> 00:02:15,360 um first tour overseas in the Middle 55 00:02:20,809 --> 00:02:18,959 East and then from there uh you know a 56 00:02:22,910 --> 00:02:20,819 lot of headquarters assignments overseas 57 00:02:25,490 --> 00:02:22,920 assignments uh assignments throughout 58 00:02:27,170 --> 00:02:25,500 the United States so had a great career 59 00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:27,180 25 years 60 00:02:32,330 --> 00:02:30,239 took a little time off uh after I 61 00:02:35,089 --> 00:02:32,340 retired about nine months went back 62 00:02:39,890 --> 00:02:35,099 worked for the director uh for about a 63 00:02:41,690 --> 00:02:39,900 year and then later uh part-time for 12 64 00:02:45,350 --> 00:02:41,700 years with the directorate of Science 65 00:02:49,070 --> 00:02:45,360 and Technology in CIA for many of his 66 00:02:51,110 --> 00:02:49,080 gym you came into existence in 2017 uh 67 00:02:53,390 --> 00:02:51,120 as to the yeah as to the stars came to 68 00:02:55,610 --> 00:02:53,400 prominence now my first question and I 69 00:02:57,710 --> 00:02:55,620 want to start onto the stars and and to 70 00:02:59,690 --> 00:02:57,720 the Stars Academy of Arts and Science as 71 00:03:01,729 --> 00:02:59,700 part of it was formerly known 72 00:03:03,290 --> 00:03:01,739 um I don't usually ask questions this 73 00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:03,300 long but this one's got a little bit of 74 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:06,000 a run-up so forgive me so the formation 75 00:03:10,369 --> 00:03:07,920 and restructure of two of the Stars 76 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:10,379 Academy has at this point been very well 77 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:13,140 documented however starting there I want 78 00:03:18,170 --> 00:03:15,000 to get your point of view of the company 79 00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:18,180 from your joining in 2017 to present day 80 00:03:22,790 --> 00:03:19,920 where you are still the Vice President 81 00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:22,800 of Operations you've recently said that 82 00:03:27,050 --> 00:03:24,720 you initially refused the invite from 83 00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:27,060 Tom Delong to join citing it seemed more 84 00:03:30,170 --> 00:03:28,860 of entertainment based and that wasn't 85 00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:30,180 something you were necessarily 86 00:03:34,910 --> 00:03:32,879 interested in however fast forward five 87 00:03:37,070 --> 00:03:34,920 years things have almost come full 88 00:03:39,649 --> 00:03:37,080 circle where due to various factors 89 00:03:41,089 --> 00:03:39,659 including covid and funding of the 90 00:03:43,250 --> 00:03:41,099 research and development aspect of 91 00:03:45,770 --> 00:03:43,260 tourist Stars being being not what was 92 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:45,780 required that was shelved what have you 93 00:03:49,850 --> 00:03:47,760 seen in that time in that five years 94 00:03:52,430 --> 00:03:49,860 that has kept you a part of the company 95 00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:52,440 when others have left 96 00:03:57,350 --> 00:03:55,080 uh well first of all the the yeah that's 97 00:03:59,030 --> 00:03:57,360 essentially correct uh what you said uh 98 00:04:01,490 --> 00:03:59,040 a pretty good summation of where we've 99 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:01,500 been in the last five years some of the 100 00:04:07,130 --> 00:04:03,120 people that have left left for a very 101 00:04:09,530 --> 00:04:07,140 particular reasons uh which I can't get 102 00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:09,540 into for personnel matters uh but 103 00:04:12,710 --> 00:04:11,040 they're a really legitimate reason 104 00:04:14,449 --> 00:04:12,720 people had to move on they wanted to 105 00:04:16,550 --> 00:04:14,459 move on and that's fine I understand 106 00:04:19,430 --> 00:04:16,560 that but when the pandemic hit is sort 107 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:19,440 of threw everything into a disarray 108 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:21,840 um we have sort of shelved our r d 109 00:04:26,930 --> 00:04:25,020 program for the time being uh it's still 110 00:04:29,090 --> 00:04:26,940 there uh we still have a lot going on 111 00:04:31,370 --> 00:04:29,100 we're still working with the Army and 112 00:04:33,050 --> 00:04:31,380 combat capabilities uh command 113 00:04:35,570 --> 00:04:33,060 um they're still investigating meta 114 00:04:37,850 --> 00:04:35,580 materials at their Labs 115 00:04:39,650 --> 00:04:37,860 um we have probably two or three other 116 00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:39,660 projects we're working with them they're 117 00:04:42,950 --> 00:04:40,620 they're 118 00:04:44,450 --> 00:04:42,960 going through the science right now so 119 00:04:46,370 --> 00:04:44,460 that's not all dead it's just sort of 120 00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:46,380 sort of in the background but it became 121 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:49,440 apparent uh right after kovid um you 122 00:04:53,030 --> 00:04:51,000 know even the Army you know had a 123 00:04:55,490 --> 00:04:53,040 shutdown nobody was meeting or doing 124 00:04:57,469 --> 00:04:55,500 anything so uh 125 00:04:59,330 --> 00:04:57,479 uh some of our investors our larger 126 00:05:01,010 --> 00:04:59,340 investors that we were hoping would come 127 00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:01,020 on did not 128 00:05:04,310 --> 00:05:02,520 um and that's just fine uh we're doing 129 00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:04,320 pretty well as a company you know I 130 00:05:09,530 --> 00:05:06,900 think we're revenues are over about 200 131 00:05:11,330 --> 00:05:09,540 over over Excuse Me 2 million a year in 132 00:05:13,189 --> 00:05:11,340 revenues most of that goes for 133 00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:13,199 operations though an extraordinary 134 00:05:17,810 --> 00:05:16,080 amount of money goes to uh just the 135 00:05:20,150 --> 00:05:17,820 lawyers well we have a lot of Ip 136 00:05:23,749 --> 00:05:20,160 intellectual property and then we have 137 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:23,759 employees uh that we we pay well and um 138 00:05:27,890 --> 00:05:26,400 uh you know we look after so we're doing 139 00:05:29,890 --> 00:05:27,900 well we're in the black uh we're not 140 00:05:33,590 --> 00:05:29,900 making a lot of money right now but 141 00:05:36,050 --> 00:05:33,600 uh Tom is is leading us through to this 142 00:05:37,550 --> 00:05:36,060 entertainment thing uh where where I 143 00:05:40,730 --> 00:05:37,560 initially didn't want to go that route 144 00:05:43,670 --> 00:05:40,740 but I realized 145 00:05:46,010 --> 00:05:43,680 probably within a year after joining uh 146 00:05:47,810 --> 00:05:46,020 uh to the Stars Inc and it's now called 147 00:05:50,230 --> 00:05:47,820 to the Stars by the way we changed the 148 00:05:52,430 --> 00:05:50,240 name about a year ago 149 00:05:54,170 --> 00:05:52,440 and um 150 00:05:57,650 --> 00:05:54,180 I realized that it takes an 151 00:06:01,370 --> 00:05:57,660 extraordinary amount of money to uh uh 152 00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:01,380 do what we wanted to do we thought that 153 00:06:05,689 --> 00:06:03,120 we would have a lot of public support 154 00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:05,699 and and we did we have about 4 000 155 00:06:08,270 --> 00:06:06,900 investors now but they're small 156 00:06:10,129 --> 00:06:08,280 investors 157 00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:10,139 um which we like you know I'm glad 158 00:06:13,850 --> 00:06:11,280 they're there because they're all part 159 00:06:15,650 --> 00:06:13,860 of the part of the team with us 160 00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:15,660 um but it takes an enormous sum of money 161 00:06:19,909 --> 00:06:18,240 uh to uh do some of the projects we 162 00:06:22,189 --> 00:06:19,919 wanted to do 163 00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:22,199 um and that was an eye-opener for all of 164 00:06:24,790 --> 00:06:23,160 us 165 00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:24,800 um so we brought on 166 00:06:33,170 --> 00:06:27,780 uh onto our board 167 00:06:34,969 --> 00:06:33,180 a uh uh a a financial Guru a wizard uh 168 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:34,979 Chris meiser who's just one wonderful 169 00:06:39,710 --> 00:06:37,380 Heath the CEO of the various capital and 170 00:06:41,930 --> 00:06:39,720 he's been very very helpful to us and 171 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:41,940 then uh recently more recently Stan spry 172 00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:44,400 who's the uh president of uh cartel 173 00:06:49,790 --> 00:06:47,220 Productions and they do lots and lots of 174 00:06:52,969 --> 00:06:49,800 movies so he's been very helpful uh and 175 00:06:55,490 --> 00:06:52,979 we have you know we just sold uh well 176 00:06:57,529 --> 00:06:55,500 sold legendary pictures the ones who 177 00:06:59,870 --> 00:06:57,539 just did Dune you know bought 178 00:07:02,870 --> 00:06:59,880 bought into the options for uh the 179 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:02,880 secret machines fiction Trilogy uh We've 180 00:07:08,450 --> 00:07:04,740 sold an animated series that has nothing 181 00:07:11,029 --> 00:07:08,460 to do with UFOs uh uh to a streaming 182 00:07:12,290 --> 00:07:11,039 service uh just recently and we have 183 00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:12,300 about a dozen other projects 184 00:07:17,330 --> 00:07:14,220 entertainment projects and varying 185 00:07:19,610 --> 00:07:17,340 levels of production right now so and 186 00:07:21,710 --> 00:07:19,620 then uh the movie Monsters of California 187 00:07:23,629 --> 00:07:21,720 is uh 188 00:07:27,170 --> 00:07:23,639 pretty much out of post-production it's 189 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:27,180 being uh sold hopefully uh there's a few 190 00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:28,800 uh 191 00:07:33,469 --> 00:07:31,440 services that are talking to us right 192 00:07:35,210 --> 00:07:33,479 now wanting to buy the picture so that's 193 00:07:38,510 --> 00:07:35,220 sort of where we are at the moment 194 00:07:40,850 --> 00:07:38,520 so the animation is breaking bare which 195 00:07:43,370 --> 00:07:40,860 like you say is nothing to do with the 196 00:07:45,650 --> 00:07:43,380 the UFO conversation and more of a fun 197 00:07:47,510 --> 00:07:45,660 side project that Tom without his has 198 00:07:49,249 --> 00:07:47,520 come up with and it's like Bears 199 00:07:50,510 --> 00:07:49,259 Breaking Bad that sort of thing and that 200 00:07:52,909 --> 00:07:50,520 that's something people can look forward 201 00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:52,919 to putting that aside you see it's 202 00:07:56,870 --> 00:07:54,720 exciting to hear Lionsgate have picked 203 00:07:58,909 --> 00:07:56,880 up the option for secret machines very 204 00:08:02,089 --> 00:07:58,919 popular set of books or audio books for 205 00:08:04,309 --> 00:08:02,099 many and also the monsters in California 206 00:08:05,689 --> 00:08:04,319 piece that we're hoping comes out sooner 207 00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:05,699 than later as well 208 00:08:10,969 --> 00:08:08,160 what should excite people most about the 209 00:08:13,189 --> 00:08:10,979 potential of those media projects and 210 00:08:15,409 --> 00:08:13,199 the impact those can have on the overall 211 00:08:17,870 --> 00:08:15,419 UFO conversation as well as being you 212 00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:17,880 know media releases that's a very good 213 00:08:21,890 --> 00:08:19,680 question you know we like to 214 00:08:24,529 --> 00:08:21,900 we like to say a TT asset you know we 215 00:08:28,430 --> 00:08:24,539 what the projects that we we do we work 216 00:08:30,529 --> 00:08:28,440 on that have to do with uh uaps and the 217 00:08:33,170 --> 00:08:30,539 phenomenon in general they really come 218 00:08:35,449 --> 00:08:33,180 from what we call informed science or 219 00:08:37,250 --> 00:08:35,459 informed opinions and mainly because 220 00:08:38,990 --> 00:08:37,260 most of the people that work there you 221 00:08:40,329 --> 00:08:39,000 know work for the government or had some 222 00:08:44,750 --> 00:08:40,339 kind of relationship with the government 223 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:44,760 uh we were involved early on in this 224 00:08:48,530 --> 00:08:46,860 um sort of have a pretty good idea most 225 00:08:50,750 --> 00:08:48,540 of us have been researching this for 30 226 00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:50,760 40 years 227 00:08:55,430 --> 00:08:52,740 so we have a unique perspective I think 228 00:08:57,889 --> 00:08:55,440 on on on this phenomenon we certainly 229 00:09:00,350 --> 00:08:57,899 don't have all the answers 230 00:09:03,710 --> 00:09:00,360 um and we can't discuss classified 231 00:09:05,870 --> 00:09:03,720 material uh uh certainly but we can sort 232 00:09:08,930 --> 00:09:05,880 of move it move the uh hopefully the 233 00:09:10,370 --> 00:09:08,940 conversation in the right direction uh I 234 00:09:12,170 --> 00:09:10,380 think some of the projects that we have 235 00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:12,180 we're working on right now we've hired 236 00:09:17,329 --> 00:09:15,660 some really Top Flight screenwriters and 237 00:09:20,769 --> 00:09:17,339 uh we're working on getting financing 238 00:09:23,329 --> 00:09:20,779 for them now uh I think you'll see a um 239 00:09:27,170 --> 00:09:23,339 uh hopefully 240 00:09:29,690 --> 00:09:27,180 a different take on on this phenomenon 241 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:29,700 and and what we think it might might be 242 00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:32,040 now that now because 243 00:09:35,509 --> 00:09:33,600 there'll be movies there has to be some 244 00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:35,519 dramatic license right and some poetic 245 00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:37,380 license you have to take 246 00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:38,820 uh certainly 247 00:09:44,990 --> 00:09:42,060 um uh we're focusing on entertainment 248 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:45,000 mostly because as Tom pointed out and 249 00:09:47,690 --> 00:09:46,980 many discussions that we had he said 250 00:09:50,870 --> 00:09:47,700 look 251 00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:50,880 if we want to do what we want to do 252 00:09:56,210 --> 00:09:53,880 really want to do research 253 00:09:57,949 --> 00:09:56,220 we really need to have the funding 254 00:09:59,870 --> 00:09:57,959 coming in and the only way to do that 255 00:10:01,910 --> 00:09:59,880 the best way to do that right now is 256 00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:01,920 through the entertainment portion 257 00:10:08,509 --> 00:10:04,560 because that has the possibility to 258 00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:08,519 create uh uh uh Revenue uh we're a 259 00:10:11,690 --> 00:10:10,380 public benefit corporation which means 260 00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:11,700 that you know I think anywhere from 10 261 00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:15,120 to 15 percent of our profits 262 00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:19,100 um should go into uh uh public benefit 263 00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:21,720 uh or you know organizations and we do 264 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:23,519 that right now I mean with the money we 265 00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:26,160 make too we do some local charity work 266 00:10:30,410 --> 00:10:28,800 and uh uh we're we're associated with 267 00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:30,420 one tribe 268 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:32,040 um trying to save the rainforest in the 269 00:10:36,170 --> 00:10:34,500 Amazon things along those lines so but 270 00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,180 we're looking forward to having the kind 271 00:10:40,190 --> 00:10:38,399 of money and the kind of profits that 272 00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,200 we'll be able to go back and get Scout 273 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:42,720 and fault in some of the um 274 00:10:48,829 --> 00:10:46,160 you know AI directed database research 275 00:10:52,190 --> 00:10:48,839 tools get those up and running they're 276 00:10:55,310 --> 00:10:52,200 extraordinarily expensive to to run and 277 00:10:58,009 --> 00:10:55,320 um so we're but they're all set up and 278 00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:58,019 um ready to roll so like most UFO 279 00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:00,240 organizations or UAP organizations that 280 00:11:03,710 --> 00:11:01,920 are out there and I don't know one of 281 00:11:06,170 --> 00:11:03,720 them that has any money or a lot of 282 00:11:08,090 --> 00:11:06,180 money most of them don't 283 00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:08,100 um uh you know they have some funding 284 00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:10,140 but a million dollars doesn't amount to 285 00:11:14,810 --> 00:11:13,500 much five million dollars maybe but you 286 00:11:16,730 --> 00:11:14,820 really you know to do what you really 287 00:11:18,590 --> 00:11:16,740 want to do and to get things moving you 288 00:11:20,269 --> 00:11:18,600 need a considerable amount of money you 289 00:11:21,889 --> 00:11:20,279 need to have a money this seti you know 290 00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:21,899 had from Yuri Milner you know 100 291 00:11:26,930 --> 00:11:24,240 million dollars over a period of years 292 00:11:30,350 --> 00:11:26,940 to do their investigation 293 00:11:32,509 --> 00:11:30,360 um until we get something close to that 294 00:11:33,769 --> 00:11:32,519 um and not just our organization any 295 00:11:36,170 --> 00:11:33,779 organization 296 00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:36,180 you're not going to see too much private 297 00:11:39,530 --> 00:11:37,980 Headway all right 298 00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:39,540 um 299 00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:42,420 the the funding what what all there is 300 00:11:45,170 --> 00:11:43,920 you know it usually comes from the 301 00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:45,180 government and that goes to the 302 00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:47,040 government it doesn't go to the private 303 00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:49,140 sector on this except for defense 304 00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,300 contractors obviously 305 00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:53,519 it's good to hear those those apps like 306 00:11:57,530 --> 00:11:55,980 Vault and Scout are still there still in 307 00:11:59,389 --> 00:11:57,540 the background and that's the kind of 308 00:12:01,550 --> 00:11:59,399 things people are hoping come out of of 309 00:12:03,949 --> 00:12:01,560 two of the stars as well you do mention 310 00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,959 that informed science uh hopefully 311 00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:05,519 giving direction to some of the media 312 00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:07,860 projects and you can't obviously discuss 313 00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:10,920 classified information on that I want to 314 00:12:14,630 --> 00:12:12,480 just briefly talk about your colleague 315 00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:14,640 Tom Delong there have been many 316 00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:16,620 occasions over the last five years we 317 00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:19,380 are online via social media or on any 318 00:12:25,069 --> 00:12:22,320 number of appearances Tom has discussed 319 00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,079 some pretty wild ideas and I Wonder has 320 00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:26,880 there ever been a time gym you have had 321 00:12:31,130 --> 00:12:28,980 to give them a friendly reminder of 322 00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:31,140 where that line is and what he can and 323 00:12:37,490 --> 00:12:34,140 can't say out in public 324 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:37,500 well I mean we we never tell Tom what he 325 00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:39,660 can and can't say I mean Thomas Tom and 326 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,240 um he's an extraordinarily bright guy he 327 00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:44,880 reads uh you know voraciously on this 328 00:12:48,530 --> 00:12:47,279 topic he knows a lot of people he's met 329 00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:48,540 a lot of people 330 00:12:53,329 --> 00:12:51,540 um uh uh I I'm actually in awe of what 331 00:12:55,009 --> 00:12:53,339 he had what he has done before I even 332 00:12:56,329 --> 00:12:55,019 met him uh you know when I really sort 333 00:12:58,190 --> 00:12:56,339 of learned about what he was what he had 334 00:13:00,889 --> 00:12:58,200 been up to but no he has his own 335 00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:00,899 opinions on this and and he's certainly 336 00:13:04,370 --> 00:13:02,880 allowed to say that uh say whatever he 337 00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:04,380 wants to say 338 00:13:08,509 --> 00:13:07,320 um uh I uh we have talked as a company 339 00:13:13,069 --> 00:13:08,519 you know 340 00:13:14,449 --> 00:13:13,079 interest as a company for me or Tom or 341 00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,459 anybody else in the company to come out 342 00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:16,320 and make a statement about 343 00:13:20,449 --> 00:13:18,660 you know what the phenomenon is we 344 00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:20,459 really don't know I mean our goal really 345 00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:22,500 is to figure out what it is and to get 346 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:25,980 that information out so I think we do a 347 00:13:32,810 --> 00:13:28,860 pretty good job of caveating what we say 348 00:13:35,449 --> 00:13:32,820 I mean if Tom you know or me or anybody 349 00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:35,459 wanted to talk about 350 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:38,220 you know uh you know extraterrestrials 351 00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:40,500 or different types of species you know 352 00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:43,260 perfectly fine but you have to caveat 353 00:13:48,530 --> 00:13:46,800 that with well you know we've we heard 354 00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:48,540 or we think or there's this you know 355 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,420 there's talk about blah blah blah but we 356 00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,800 can't make any definitive kind of 357 00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,480 comments on what is real and what is not 358 00:13:58,009 --> 00:13:56,639 real it's just because nobody knows well 359 00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:58,019 I shouldn't say they're probably 360 00:14:02,329 --> 00:14:00,000 somebody who knows maybe 361 00:14:04,250 --> 00:14:02,339 but um I'm not betting on it be honest 362 00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,260 with you based on my knowledge 363 00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,480 sure and speculation can be fun and it 364 00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:08,639 is nice to see someone like Tom come out 365 00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:10,500 and and do that I'm someone who doesn't 366 00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:12,420 mind a bit of speculation it can be 367 00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,040 healthy 368 00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:16,320 I agree and uh you know and Tom's 369 00:14:21,530 --> 00:14:19,920 imagination is just amazing and uh you 370 00:14:22,670 --> 00:14:21,540 know having having watched him up close 371 00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:22,680 working 372 00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:25,920 um not only in his musical you know uh 373 00:14:31,550 --> 00:14:28,740 Affairs but also with the company I mean 374 00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,560 he's a he's a very strong leader and uh 375 00:14:35,329 --> 00:14:33,120 I've seen the best I used to teach 376 00:14:37,310 --> 00:14:35,339 leadership uh so I know what I'm talking 377 00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:37,320 about he's a he's a pretty pretty cool 378 00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:39,420 guy and uh 379 00:14:42,769 --> 00:14:41,100 um I think he's just the type of guy 380 00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,779 that that can move this forward as a 381 00:14:47,389 --> 00:14:44,399 matter of fact I mean the FBI contacted 382 00:14:49,009 --> 00:14:47,399 him of all people and um you know I I I 383 00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:49,019 don't know if he actually addressed them 384 00:14:54,110 --> 00:14:51,540 yet but he's planning on doing that they 385 00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:54,120 want to know how did you get this this 386 00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:55,980 topic into the Forefront 387 00:15:00,050 --> 00:14:58,079 uh you know a lot of people have tried 388 00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:00,060 good Lord we've had so many good people 389 00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:02,760 uh out there you can name them you know 390 00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:04,860 dozens of them had been working on this 391 00:15:07,550 --> 00:15:05,760 but 392 00:15:09,949 --> 00:15:07,560 Tom was able to break through I think it 393 00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:09,959 was the right person at the right time 394 00:15:14,689 --> 00:15:11,880 uh for him 395 00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:14,699 um but Tom and myself and everybody else 396 00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:17,220 at TTS acknowledge 397 00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:19,740 you know the work of you know Jacque 398 00:15:26,689 --> 00:15:22,980 Valley and and uh George Knapp and uh 399 00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:26,699 John Alexander uh Richard Dolan I mean 400 00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:28,620 you can you can go you can go right down 401 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,440 the list kit green who've spent decades 402 00:15:36,170 --> 00:15:33,120 looking at this and these are the guys 403 00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:36,180 that and women you know Linda Moulton 404 00:15:40,670 --> 00:15:38,699 Howe I mean there's so many of them who 405 00:15:42,829 --> 00:15:40,680 spent a good portion of their lives 406 00:15:45,889 --> 00:15:42,839 during this we're we're 407 00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:45,899 uh we're pikers compared to them we 408 00:15:48,829 --> 00:15:47,519 truly are I mean these These are the 409 00:15:50,990 --> 00:15:48,839 cream of the crop 410 00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:51,000 and um I've got a guy like George Knapp 411 00:15:56,810 --> 00:15:53,100 who I had the pleasure of meeting about 412 00:15:58,970 --> 00:15:56,820 a year or two ago and uh just uh a very 413 00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:58,980 straight up guy who sent some a great 414 00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:00,540 investigative work 415 00:16:05,810 --> 00:16:03,600 by Bigelow called Kelleher you know um 416 00:16:08,449 --> 00:16:05,820 you could get Jim lakotsky you know from 417 00:16:09,889 --> 00:16:08,459 the original ASAP program yeah these are 418 00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:09,899 the people that really deserve most of 419 00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:11,100 the credit 420 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:12,720 well listen I don't want to talk too 421 00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:14,820 much about Tom Delong because it's Tom's 422 00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:16,380 not here to do that maybe one day he 423 00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:17,820 will be that's no doubt something you 424 00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,680 can give a heads up with but I think 425 00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:21,600 everyone asks you Jim to tell Tom to 426 00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:23,699 come on their podcast so I'll I'll hope 427 00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:25,740 when he does a media run for monsters in 428 00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:27,300 California that he's more open to 429 00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:29,100 interviews many of us would like to 430 00:16:32,810 --> 00:16:31,260 speak to him but there are just a couple 431 00:16:34,850 --> 00:16:32,820 of things Thomas said I'd love to get 432 00:16:37,009 --> 00:16:34,860 your opinion on at least 433 00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:37,019 um Tom has mentioned in the past that he 434 00:16:41,629 --> 00:16:39,300 had a meeting with a general who told 435 00:16:43,790 --> 00:16:41,639 him that it was the Cold War and we 436 00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:43,800 found a life form I wonder have you 437 00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:45,000 heard that story 438 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,560 um have you met the general and what are 439 00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:48,480 your impressions 440 00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:50,699 yes I've heard the story 441 00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:54,480 um uh I believe it is true uh and here's 442 00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:55,860 what's interesting 443 00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:58,620 Tom before I met with Tom Tom had a had 444 00:17:01,850 --> 00:17:00,779 a group of advisors and I think he 445 00:17:03,769 --> 00:17:01,860 mentioned that there were like 10 of 446 00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:03,779 them 447 00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:07,199 um the Russian you know email Purge or 448 00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:08,220 the hack 449 00:17:13,549 --> 00:17:11,280 you know it revealed podesta I think uh 450 00:17:16,990 --> 00:17:13,559 General uh Air Force general which is 451 00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,000 named uh mccaff no not McCaffrey um 452 00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,919 uh McCaslin General McCaslin yeah and 453 00:17:24,350 --> 00:17:21,360 there's another one McCreary I think 454 00:17:25,549 --> 00:17:24,360 those are the only three that I know Tom 455 00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:25,559 has never 456 00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:28,380 told me or anybody else to my knowledge 457 00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:30,360 who these other advisors are do they 458 00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:33,360 exist absolutely how do I know because I 459 00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:35,400 guess two of them 460 00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:37,640 um who two former very high level CIA 461 00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:40,980 officers who whom I know 462 00:17:45,529 --> 00:17:43,320 so and um and there was another one and 463 00:17:47,810 --> 00:17:45,539 I I sort of put two and two together and 464 00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:47,820 somebody else mentioned uh to me that 465 00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:49,740 yeah that's probably who it was but but 466 00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:51,840 we don't I don't I don't test Tom on 467 00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:55,980 this Tom Tom has been told you know top 468 00:17:59,330 --> 00:17:57,660 has talked to these people and told them 469 00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,340 he's not interested in classified 470 00:18:03,470 --> 00:18:01,980 information but he has a story he wants 471 00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:03,480 to tell and he wants to get behind it 472 00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:05,400 and he wants to get as close to the 473 00:18:08,330 --> 00:18:07,020 truth as possible without Crossing that 474 00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,340 line I think he's done an exceptional 475 00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:10,320 job so 476 00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:11,039 um 477 00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,380 you know I I you know I hate to sound 478 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,360 like an apologist for Tom but 479 00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:17,760 he did it the right way and and people 480 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:20,220 really respected that and uh and to this 481 00:18:24,110 --> 00:18:21,600 day 482 00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:24,120 um you know Tom Tom has got a lot of 483 00:18:29,390 --> 00:18:26,460 respect within government circles so 484 00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:29,400 yeah no one's infallible and at the end 485 00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,960 of the day everyone involved in this 486 00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:32,880 topic from high level to low level are 487 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:34,500 human beings and people can make 488 00:18:38,270 --> 00:18:36,000 mistakes or trap along the way but 489 00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:38,280 there's no doubt Tom has brought the 490 00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:40,380 conversation he has a large pot in 491 00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:41,940 bringing the conversation to where it is 492 00:18:46,010 --> 00:18:44,039 today and people like myself sitting 493 00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:46,020 here with a podcast and an audience of 494 00:18:50,029 --> 00:18:47,340 whatever size 495 00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:50,039 are here because of Tom Delong and to 496 00:18:54,289 --> 00:18:52,380 the stars and what happened in 2017 so 497 00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,299 I've got to thank them for that so you 498 00:18:56,810 --> 00:18:55,679 know I bought a hoodie that's that's 499 00:18:58,730 --> 00:18:56,820 what you do 500 00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,740 um yeah yeah yeah and I've got the 501 00:19:01,310 --> 00:19:00,000 stickers up here as well but people 502 00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:01,320 never see those 503 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,940 um however one more thing I want to get 504 00:19:06,890 --> 00:19:05,039 your opinion on Jim is Tom has a lot of 505 00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,900 ideas about the phenomenon and they're 506 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:08,880 fascinating to listen to 507 00:19:12,830 --> 00:19:10,200 um namely he's talked about 508 00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:12,840 Consciousness being everywhere and that 509 00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:14,760 our bodies our brains potentially are 510 00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:18,360 just antennas for that Consciousness he 511 00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:20,280 said that this world can be influenced 512 00:19:24,650 --> 00:19:22,260 by our thoughts and we can manifest and 513 00:19:26,029 --> 00:19:24,660 create reality what are your thoughts on 514 00:19:28,010 --> 00:19:26,039 that statement because that's one that 515 00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,020 really resonated with me 516 00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:30,240 yeah I pretty much agree 517 00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:34,320 um um with that um Tom and I have had uh 518 00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:37,980 God countless discussions at all hours 519 00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:40,140 of the day and night um about the 520 00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:42,720 phenomenon what it what it could what it 521 00:19:47,690 --> 00:19:46,500 could mean uh what what it constitutes 522 00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:47,700 I think 523 00:19:54,169 --> 00:19:51,600 Tom's has come to the conclusion like I 524 00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:54,179 have and I think Lou Elizondo had 525 00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:55,740 mentioned this to me earlier when I when 526 00:19:58,850 --> 00:19:57,000 I chatted with him in the in the 527 00:20:01,250 --> 00:19:58,860 beginning days I seen on asked Lou I 528 00:20:05,450 --> 00:20:01,260 said where where do you think this 529 00:20:10,370 --> 00:20:05,460 where do you think this originates 530 00:20:12,289 --> 00:20:10,380 um um and he said most likely in the 531 00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,299 Nexus between you know quantum mechanics 532 00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:14,400 and consciousness 533 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:15,720 and 534 00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:18,360 um I think that's probably 535 00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:19,799 the best 536 00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,860 um explanation I've heard so far now you 537 00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:24,720 know also I mean I I look at you know 538 00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:27,179 the person I think we respect the 539 00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:30,360 absolute most you know the the um God 540 00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:33,539 figure of TTS and probably always will 541 00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:34,440 be is 542 00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,600 probably much to his Chagrin I might add 543 00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:38,400 is Jacques valet on 544 00:20:45,950 --> 00:20:42,780 I think I am a huge fan of his and I I 545 00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:45,960 follow his lead most of the time uh 546 00:20:50,810 --> 00:20:47,940 because I think he's correct 547 00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:50,820 um I think it is uh and I think Tom does 548 00:20:55,970 --> 00:20:53,039 too in some forms it's it's some type of 549 00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:55,980 uh it'll uh intellect and some type of 550 00:20:59,630 --> 00:20:58,020 control mechanism has been with us 551 00:21:02,090 --> 00:20:59,640 forever it's been on the planet it's 552 00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:02,100 part of it I know Whitley streber and 553 00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,840 Jeff kreipel wrote a wonderful book 554 00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:05,520 called Supernatural 555 00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:08,160 and it's a I recommend it to people who 556 00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:09,720 if you haven't read it you should read 557 00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:11,400 it it's absolutely beautifully written 558 00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:12,900 by both of them 559 00:21:17,570 --> 00:21:16,020 and they talk about this the fact that 560 00:21:19,850 --> 00:21:17,580 you know we shouldn't be looking at it 561 00:21:22,669 --> 00:21:19,860 as a para or a super anything it's 562 00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:22,679 really is part of our our world it's 563 00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:24,660 part of our nature we just don't 564 00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,940 understand it uh because we're keep 565 00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:29,520 looking at things we pre-judge it this 566 00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:31,260 phenomenon all the time it's you know 567 00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:32,940 we're looking at looking at it 568 00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:35,520 anthropomorphically we're looking at it 569 00:21:39,710 --> 00:21:37,320 through a lens through our filter 570 00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:39,720 through our brain which we know doesn't 571 00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:41,700 allow every very much in you know very 572 00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:43,500 little of the hearing Spectrum very 573 00:21:49,370 --> 00:21:46,380 little of this visual Spectrum it can't 574 00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:49,380 take in everything so it's out there we 575 00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:51,960 just can't quite grasp it 576 00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:53,940 um I think Jacques makes that case when 577 00:21:58,970 --> 00:21:56,880 he said you know it you know it could be 578 00:22:00,049 --> 00:21:58,980 extraterrestrial but it could also be 579 00:22:01,850 --> 00:22:00,059 something 580 00:22:04,730 --> 00:22:01,860 that's part of us 581 00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:04,740 uh Jung took a stab at it by saying it 582 00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:08,280 was uh you know an indication of the um 583 00:22:12,890 --> 00:22:10,020 possibly the psychic this this 584 00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:12,900 equilibrium you know of the planet and 585 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:14,940 and that was a projection coming from 586 00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,740 from our Collective unconscious I'm 587 00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:18,480 probably screwing that up a little bit 588 00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,940 but I don't think so but but yeah I mean 589 00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:22,320 I I 590 00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:25,320 I don't know it could be but yeah I mean 591 00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:27,840 you know yeah you know everybody's guess 592 00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:28,799 uh 593 00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:31,020 right now I was you know sort of upper 594 00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,960 grabs uh Tom's read it all Tom's talked 595 00:22:37,370 --> 00:22:35,520 to everybody he's talked to the people 596 00:22:41,390 --> 00:22:37,380 that were the leading um 597 00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:41,400 uh purveyors of you know of whatever 598 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,100 uh thought processes were going on at 599 00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:46,080 the moment so he's very familiar with 600 00:22:49,789 --> 00:22:47,700 everything that's going on as when I as 601 00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:49,799 with me and everybody else we just can't 602 00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,720 put our finger on it a guy like Stephen 603 00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:53,039 Greer 604 00:22:57,409 --> 00:22:55,320 um who's an interesting guy he's done so 605 00:22:59,570 --> 00:22:57,419 much good work 606 00:23:01,070 --> 00:22:59,580 um I don't just I don't disagree with a 607 00:23:02,450 --> 00:23:01,080 lot of what he says but I do disagree 608 00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,460 with you know the fact that you know 609 00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,559 he's saying that well you know these 610 00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:06,720 could be these are good for Humanity the 611 00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:09,000 phenomenon is you know is something that 612 00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:11,220 uh commonly beneficial we shouldn't look 613 00:23:16,190 --> 00:23:13,700 at it in a negative way 614 00:23:16,850 --> 00:23:16,200 I think that 615 00:23:19,010 --> 00:23:16,860 um 616 00:23:22,190 --> 00:23:19,020 I think that that's probably 617 00:23:24,289 --> 00:23:22,200 not what I uh would consider wise only 618 00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:24,299 in the sense that 619 00:23:27,470 --> 00:23:26,039 and this is probably coming from my 620 00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:27,480 intelligence background I'm naturally 621 00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:28,799 cautious 622 00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:31,500 until we really know what something is 623 00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,559 let's let's uh let's investigate it 624 00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:36,000 let's figure it out 625 00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:38,100 I mean we don't we don't we don't we 626 00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:39,720 know one thing for sure right we know it 627 00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:43,020 is deceitful as hell we know it lies to 628 00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,340 us 629 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:46,559 um uh we know it hasn't introduced 630 00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,600 itself formally to us 631 00:23:53,330 --> 00:23:50,880 but it's been around since recorded 632 00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:53,340 history and probably before and you have 633 00:23:58,010 --> 00:23:56,159 to ask yourself why is that 634 00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,020 um is it like um 635 00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:00,480 you know John Keel says this big Cosmic 636 00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:02,700 joke this is why I always bring up the 637 00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:04,500 gym you know because the Gin to me are 638 00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:05,840 the closest 639 00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:08,760 uh uh you know rendition I think we have 640 00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:11,400 to you know these kind of beings that 641 00:24:14,990 --> 00:24:13,260 are a lot like us but at the same time 642 00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:15,000 they're playful they can be playful they 643 00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:17,100 can be good they can't be bad they can 644 00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:19,740 also be deceitful and um there's a 645 00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:21,659 trickster element you know involved in 646 00:24:25,970 --> 00:24:24,720 all this uh you know native native 647 00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:25,980 tribes 648 00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:28,860 you know a North American you know South 649 00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:31,380 American you know Australian they all 650 00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:33,480 talk about this the same thing 651 00:24:36,409 --> 00:24:35,520 uh shape-shifting things along those 652 00:24:39,169 --> 00:24:36,419 lines 653 00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:39,179 just let me see if I ramble because I 654 00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:41,460 have a tendency to be discursive and I I 655 00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:43,980 try to catch myself no it wasn't my 656 00:24:47,149 --> 00:24:45,539 problem is I forget I'm hosting the 657 00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:47,159 podcast and start listening like I'm a 658 00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,240 listener and I'm waiting on a host 659 00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:49,679 coming in and asking a really good 660 00:24:53,690 --> 00:24:51,960 question so yeah just uh if I forget to 661 00:24:55,490 --> 00:24:53,700 come in just to ignore me 662 00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,500 um listen you mentioned Whitley steuber 663 00:25:00,110 --> 00:24:57,840 and also Jacques valet and by pure 664 00:25:01,669 --> 00:25:00,120 happenstance uh the guest preceding your 665 00:25:03,649 --> 00:25:01,679 appearance will be Whitley stuber people 666 00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:03,659 will have heard that one already and the 667 00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:05,220 guest who will follow you on the week 668 00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,500 after is also Jacques Valley so there's 669 00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:09,120 some some great company here you're 670 00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:10,559 keeping their folks there for the month 671 00:25:15,230 --> 00:25:13,260 of October oh yeah 672 00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:15,240 um listen but uh you mentioned gin let 673 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:17,039 let's get into that now you've mentioned 674 00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:19,260 there the the trickster element of this 675 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:20,520 phenomenon 676 00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:22,620 um can you just elaborate where the idea 677 00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:25,380 of gin comes from in its old religious 678 00:25:28,370 --> 00:25:26,760 texts isn't it it's been written about 679 00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,380 in the Arabic world 680 00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,440 yes uh it's it's yeah it's mostly Arabic 681 00:25:34,610 --> 00:25:32,880 and I think it goes uh they're 682 00:25:35,870 --> 00:25:34,620 pre-islamic 683 00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:35,880 um uh I don't know if they were called 684 00:25:42,529 --> 00:25:39,960 Jin back at that time but the the Quran 685 00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:42,539 does devote some time to it um I'm in 686 00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,100 the middle of doing uh reading a couple 687 00:25:49,789 --> 00:25:45,840 academic books on it right now it's a 688 00:25:52,430 --> 00:25:49,799 little hard going uh but the problem the 689 00:25:56,090 --> 00:25:52,440 problem with it is 690 00:25:59,570 --> 00:25:56,100 is is the same problem you know we have 691 00:26:02,330 --> 00:25:59,580 with uh the uh you know ancient 692 00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:02,340 um uh uh religious texts the Western 693 00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:05,159 religion well actually the Eastern 694 00:26:09,529 --> 00:26:07,620 Middle Eastern religious text 695 00:26:11,390 --> 00:26:09,539 um there's not there's just enough 696 00:26:14,269 --> 00:26:11,400 information to wet your appetite not 697 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:14,279 enough information to make anything uh 698 00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,140 you know solid uh that you can lay your 699 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:18,240 hands on I mean I remember reading a 700 00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:19,380 book by 701 00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:21,480 um Mary Ellen giley and then I think 702 00:26:27,169 --> 00:26:25,320 Philip and bronio um on the gin and I 703 00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:27,179 thought it was a reasonably good book 704 00:26:33,169 --> 00:26:30,840 and um and they talked about you know 705 00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:33,179 the the big there was a big hole in the 706 00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:34,440 ground in Saudi Arabia I don't know 707 00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:35,880 where it was in some Wadi someplace 708 00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:38,640 where the Jinn supposedly reside and 709 00:26:42,649 --> 00:26:41,100 there's a guardian there that that looks 710 00:26:45,130 --> 00:26:42,659 after it and 711 00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:45,140 um but uh there's not enough information 712 00:26:51,049 --> 00:26:48,059 to really direct us one way or the other 713 00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:51,059 it's um it's part of the phenomenon I 714 00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:52,880 think that 715 00:26:58,010 --> 00:26:55,919 doesn't allow it allows just enough 716 00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:58,020 information to wet our appetite but not 717 00:27:02,750 --> 00:27:00,539 enough to make anything 718 00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:02,760 any kind of definitive you know 719 00:27:04,909 --> 00:27:04,260 statement about it 720 00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:04,919 um 721 00:27:09,529 --> 00:27:07,320 the Gin only you know to me is only of 722 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:09,539 interest because it's just another 723 00:27:14,330 --> 00:27:11,700 Avenue to explore but I don't think it's 724 00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:14,340 any different from from what the uh you 725 00:27:19,370 --> 00:27:17,580 know Native Americans believe uh or the 726 00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:19,380 indigenous people in South America 727 00:27:24,529 --> 00:27:21,960 believed uh uh either I mean you know 728 00:27:27,649 --> 00:27:24,539 they call it by different names 729 00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:27,659 um so I mean it's it's fascinating stuff 730 00:27:33,049 --> 00:27:30,480 but it's a Wilderness of mirrors as I 731 00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:33,059 say well I've heard you say Jim that 732 00:27:36,110 --> 00:27:34,620 even though you've got a Catholic 733 00:27:38,090 --> 00:27:36,120 background you're not religious yourself 734 00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:38,100 and that's that's who I would say about 735 00:27:42,409 --> 00:27:40,500 myself as well and I can look on these 736 00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:42,419 various religions now and I think many 737 00:27:47,450 --> 00:27:44,700 of these labels that we hear of angels 738 00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:47,460 demons Spirits are very much just that 739 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:49,140 they are labels for something that at 740 00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:51,840 the time was was misunderstood or not 741 00:27:56,750 --> 00:27:54,320 understood in the same way we look at 80 742 00:27:59,690 --> 00:27:56,760 non-human intelligence extraterrestrial 743 00:28:01,250 --> 00:27:59,700 beings interdimensional beings I just 744 00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:01,260 wonder on that it's still speaking about 745 00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:04,020 gin have you seen any direct evidence 746 00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:06,179 that Jen are real beings and not just 747 00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:08,760 some kind of metaphor or energy 748 00:28:17,149 --> 00:28:09,840 no 749 00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:17,159 uh I mean it was uh 750 00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,460 the the the the information that does 751 00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:22,320 exist out there that I've seen on Jim 752 00:28:25,970 --> 00:28:24,539 you know it to me is is weak I mean it's 753 00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:25,980 it's it's 754 00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:29,520 um it's second hand third hand there's 755 00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:31,740 nothing definitive out there I mean I I 756 00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:34,080 mean you say the same about angels right 757 00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:36,000 um and I I don't know I mean you know 758 00:28:41,630 --> 00:28:38,700 when Mary you know the Virgin Mary uh 759 00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:41,640 you know had a visit I think by Gabriel 760 00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,679 to announce the birth you know of of 761 00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:45,840 Christ 762 00:28:51,010 --> 00:28:48,600 um uh the enunciation and um and and 763 00:28:53,149 --> 00:28:51,020 then you know 764 00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:53,159 visits quote-unquote By Angels 765 00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,480 throughout the Bible 766 00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:55,919 I mean it's fascinating when you think 767 00:28:59,810 --> 00:28:58,320 about it I mean you know the Angels they 768 00:29:01,130 --> 00:28:59,820 describe them as Angels you know when 769 00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:01,140 they're looking at them in a religious 770 00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:02,220 context 771 00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:05,100 but could they be beings other beings 772 00:29:10,490 --> 00:29:08,700 you know that just come in and and uh 773 00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:10,500 make whatever statement they want to 774 00:29:18,669 --> 00:29:14,580 make you know it seems to me uh uh you 775 00:29:28,130 --> 00:29:23,889 the this phenomenon has made incredible 776 00:29:30,289 --> 00:29:28,140 Impressions on our culture 777 00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:30,299 and uh 778 00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:33,299 and our our cultural beliefs 779 00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:37,080 uh was religion you know uh basically 780 00:29:43,730 --> 00:29:40,740 instituted based on people's experiences 781 00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:43,740 with this phenomenon certainly when you 782 00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:45,480 look at Mormonism 783 00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:47,760 you know probably the most recent 784 00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:48,840 example 785 00:29:55,310 --> 00:29:52,020 um fascinating stuff I mean you know you 786 00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,320 know Joseph Smith a young man who's had 787 00:29:59,810 --> 00:29:57,840 visitations before finally he goes out 788 00:30:02,450 --> 00:29:59,820 in the woods he meets the angel Moroni 789 00:30:06,430 --> 00:30:02,460 and you know the visitation start uh 790 00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:06,440 religion and now was it was it the case 791 00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:09,480 where uh the being or the angel is 792 00:30:14,350 --> 00:30:11,700 giving him information that is true or 793 00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,360 accurate or was it just another 794 00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:17,039 basically lie 795 00:30:20,810 --> 00:30:18,480 so don't know 796 00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:20,820 do you think on that then that these 797 00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:22,860 other worldly entities whatever they may 798 00:30:27,649 --> 00:30:25,440 be have had a hand in creating Humanity 799 00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,659 as we know it today 800 00:30:31,850 --> 00:30:29,520 it's certainly a possibility 801 00:30:34,010 --> 00:30:31,860 um you know that um you know when you go 802 00:30:36,889 --> 00:30:34,020 back to I think it was correct the guy 803 00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:36,899 who invalided he watched it and 804 00:30:40,850 --> 00:30:38,940 corrected I think it was quick it was 805 00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:40,860 the one who just discussed panspermia 806 00:30:46,190 --> 00:30:43,620 that notion that you know the Earth was 807 00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:46,200 basically seated uh you know by 808 00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:48,779 well by anybody I mean he doesn't really 809 00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:50,220 know it could have been from meteors it 810 00:30:55,310 --> 00:30:52,740 could have been from another uh another 811 00:30:57,529 --> 00:30:55,320 civilization uh 812 00:30:59,330 --> 00:30:57,539 our problem is 813 00:31:03,049 --> 00:30:59,340 and it always has been 814 00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:03,059 is that we're living in a world 815 00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:04,679 um that's 816 00:31:09,169 --> 00:31:07,320 our universe our view of the Universe I 817 00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:09,179 should say is rather constrained right 818 00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:14,399 we we just can't seem to get into uh 819 00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:16,200 we're in self-consciousness but we can't 820 00:31:19,070 --> 00:31:18,360 seem to get into something that allows 821 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:19,080 us 822 00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:22,440 to you know uh see it all right 823 00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:24,600 um and it all depends on your point of 824 00:31:29,149 --> 00:31:27,000 view uh you know the point of view of a 825 00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:29,159 of a small animal or an insect was a lot 826 00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:31,260 different from our point of view and our 827 00:31:34,909 --> 00:31:32,940 point of view may be as primitive as 828 00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:34,919 their point of view is regarding what 829 00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:37,679 the universe is actually about these are 830 00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:39,480 the kind of questions you know this is 831 00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:41,100 sort of funny I've walked away from this 832 00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:42,960 topic many times 833 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:45,480 because I find myself you know uh 834 00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,740 basically having the same damn 835 00:31:50,330 --> 00:31:48,480 discussions I had when I was a sophomore 836 00:31:51,950 --> 00:31:50,340 in college you know on these 837 00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:51,960 sessions you know at night talking about 838 00:31:55,549 --> 00:31:54,240 philosophy and with a couple guys you're 839 00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:55,559 having a beer you know what I mean 840 00:31:58,430 --> 00:31:56,940 you're talking about it and you're up to 841 00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,440 four in the morning trying to solve 842 00:32:02,269 --> 00:32:00,480 solve these kind of issues that have 843 00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:02,279 actually no resolution to them at all 844 00:32:06,769 --> 00:32:05,100 they're rather insoluble 845 00:32:08,450 --> 00:32:06,779 well I find myself you know coming back 846 00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:08,460 to it now I have more information now 847 00:32:12,769 --> 00:32:10,740 and sometimes the arguments arguments 848 00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:12,779 are a bit more academic and they're 849 00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:15,360 they're fascinating uh but when you get 850 00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,640 a guy like Keel you know John Keel who I 851 00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:20,159 I Mark you know quite a bit where he 852 00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:22,260 just basically throws up his hands and 853 00:32:25,310 --> 00:32:23,220 said hey 854 00:32:26,930 --> 00:32:25,320 it's probably not just a big Cosmic joke 855 00:32:29,570 --> 00:32:26,940 it's just a big put on and you know and 856 00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:29,580 they're not going to tell us anything 857 00:32:34,370 --> 00:32:31,260 and um 858 00:32:35,510 --> 00:32:34,380 you know you you think when these people 859 00:32:37,970 --> 00:32:35,520 that have go through abduction 860 00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:37,980 experiences and um 861 00:32:44,090 --> 00:32:41,580 the entities will tell them things 862 00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,100 um their lives change mostly for the 863 00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:46,320 better I might I might say some some not 864 00:32:49,549 --> 00:32:47,640 some 865 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:49,559 I think a smaller percentage probably 866 00:32:54,649 --> 00:32:52,320 under 10 have a very difficult time with 867 00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:54,659 this I know a few of them 868 00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:56,399 had a very difficult time with this both 869 00:33:01,850 --> 00:32:58,200 physically and mentally 870 00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:01,860 but when you when you look at this 871 00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:03,840 um uh you know our 872 00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:06,419 you have to ask yourself what are they 873 00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:08,220 by doing this what are they what are 874 00:33:11,510 --> 00:33:09,600 they trying to create or what are they 875 00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:11,520 trying to tell us 876 00:33:15,889 --> 00:33:14,700 and um for some people versions is with 877 00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:15,899 me 878 00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:17,880 my experience 879 00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:20,159 it didn't change me I had been studying 880 00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,740 this for a long time I was a and I still 881 00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:25,440 remain a True Believer in the idea that 882 00:33:30,169 --> 00:33:28,080 yes this exists so I was wondering why 883 00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,179 would why would these entities or 884 00:33:34,669 --> 00:33:32,000 whatever the hell it was is phenomenon 885 00:33:37,250 --> 00:33:34,679 you know invade my life 886 00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:37,260 caused me and my wife distress 887 00:33:43,130 --> 00:33:40,980 and um uh and basically leave us with no 888 00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:43,140 explanation whatsoever 889 00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:44,760 I don't know 890 00:33:48,889 --> 00:33:46,860 uh you know and there's a there's a 891 00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:48,899 little bit of there's a lot of curiosity 892 00:33:51,649 --> 00:33:50,880 a little bit of anger associated with 893 00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:51,659 that 894 00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:53,460 just like I think and I have friends of 895 00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:55,380 mine who feel the same way 896 00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:57,600 if it affects your loved ones 897 00:34:01,909 --> 00:33:59,460 you know it's not funny there's no 898 00:34:04,669 --> 00:34:01,919 humorous aspect of this 899 00:34:06,110 --> 00:34:04,679 um so you have to ask yourself well 900 00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:06,120 people people will say like you know how 901 00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:07,380 you know when they always say you know 902 00:34:11,930 --> 00:34:10,020 you know why did why does God act the 903 00:34:13,070 --> 00:34:11,940 way why does God allow things to happen 904 00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:13,080 and then there's always that famous 905 00:34:16,490 --> 00:34:14,820 retort that nurse Christians will give 906 00:34:18,889 --> 00:34:16,500 you we don't know but you know it's 907 00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:18,899 God's way and you can't question it well 908 00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:20,520 you know I don't know about that and and 909 00:34:25,849 --> 00:34:23,220 you know I I I think you should question 910 00:34:27,950 --> 00:34:25,859 it um and I think that's uh 911 00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,960 that's extraordinarily important and the 912 00:34:31,550 --> 00:34:29,280 same thing about with these entities 913 00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:31,560 whoever they are and whatever they are 914 00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:33,720 they take these actions 915 00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,940 um that affect us some are good some are 916 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:37,200 not so good 917 00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:39,300 you know do we hold them accountable 918 00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:40,740 should we hold them accountable I think 919 00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,879 yes 920 00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:43,679 but I mean how do you do that well first 921 00:34:46,369 --> 00:34:44,820 of all you got to find out what the hell 922 00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:46,379 it is 923 00:34:50,089 --> 00:34:48,540 um and um and that's going to be 924 00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:50,099 extraordinarily difficult because I 925 00:34:54,770 --> 00:34:51,899 don't think the government or 926 00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:54,780 governments are set up for that 927 00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,220 um we certainly are in the private 928 00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:58,560 sector I mean the goal of TTS when we 929 00:35:03,410 --> 00:34:59,760 first started 930 00:35:06,770 --> 00:35:03,420 was to start and I I explained this to 931 00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:06,780 government people at the time 932 00:35:13,069 --> 00:35:10,160 you don't own this topic 933 00:35:15,710 --> 00:35:13,079 and the idea that we're going to wait 934 00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:15,720 for you to tell us what this is 935 00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:18,900 I think absurd uh you know 936 00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:21,300 yeah they appear over you know fighter 937 00:35:25,849 --> 00:35:24,000 carrier task groups and and over nuclear 938 00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:25,859 sites and military installations of 939 00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,820 course they do but they appear 940 00:35:31,310 --> 00:35:29,280 everywhere else too you know they appear 941 00:35:32,810 --> 00:35:31,320 to normal citizens and they cause a lot 942 00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,820 of grief 943 00:35:36,890 --> 00:35:35,760 and um so you know the answer really is 944 00:35:38,089 --> 00:35:36,900 let the government do what the 945 00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,099 government needs to do and hopefully 946 00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,320 they'll tell us something 947 00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:41,760 um but I'm not holding my breath the 948 00:35:45,650 --> 00:35:43,560 goal of TTS was to come out and try to 949 00:35:46,670 --> 00:35:45,660 figure this out in a private way and we 950 00:35:48,109 --> 00:35:46,680 were hoping that there'd be enough 951 00:35:49,730 --> 00:35:48,119 people 952 00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:49,740 who would be willing to do this along 953 00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:52,020 with us but it turns out there weren't 954 00:35:55,970 --> 00:35:54,359 this is a very small niche 955 00:35:57,410 --> 00:35:55,980 I have friends you know that were over 956 00:35:59,329 --> 00:35:57,420 the other night you know and very 957 00:36:03,829 --> 00:35:59,339 well-educated people doctors you know 958 00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,839 CIA guys this is they this doesn't 959 00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:06,480 resonate with him at all at all 960 00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:09,300 and uh and most of my friends 961 00:36:12,530 --> 00:36:11,220 you know Highly Educated it doesn't 962 00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:12,540 resonate at all it's just not on 963 00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:15,060 anybody's big list you know they find it 964 00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:16,440 interesting they find it interesting 965 00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:18,540 that I'm involved in it but 966 00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:20,460 you know they don't ask any pertinent 967 00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,380 questions uh they have their lives to 968 00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:24,839 live and they go off and live them so 969 00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:27,540 we're a very very small group yes yeah 970 00:36:31,609 --> 00:36:29,940 we are small but we are many uh I think 971 00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,619 for many of us like for me I had a 972 00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:33,359 sighting when I was a child with with a 973 00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:34,920 group of people that really sparked on 974 00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:37,680 my lifelong interest in the UFO subject 975 00:36:41,329 --> 00:36:39,240 even though before that I loved 976 00:36:42,829 --> 00:36:41,339 Mysteries like the pyramids of Egypt and 977 00:36:45,230 --> 00:36:42,839 the Loch Ness monster being from 978 00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:45,240 Scotland all that kind of stuff but you 979 00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:47,220 have had your own experiences like you 980 00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:48,720 say with your wife which you've kept 981 00:36:53,150 --> 00:36:51,000 very private before I ask just a 982 00:36:55,250 --> 00:36:53,160 question on that did you have a 983 00:36:58,010 --> 00:36:55,260 long-standing interest in the UFO topic 984 00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:58,020 before those experiences or was a casual 985 00:37:01,130 --> 00:36:59,280 interest 986 00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:01,140 it wasn't even casual I didn't really 987 00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:03,300 know too much about it until the uh the 988 00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:05,220 the incident 989 00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:08,880 um I uh uh I wasn't familiar with with 990 00:37:11,870 --> 00:37:10,560 any of it actually I was familiar with 991 00:37:13,790 --> 00:37:11,880 it in the sense that yeah it was out 992 00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:13,800 there I mean my my interest had always 993 00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:14,760 been 994 00:37:20,510 --> 00:37:18,960 um you know studying the occult uh and 995 00:37:22,430 --> 00:37:20,520 by that just secret knowledge you know I 996 00:37:25,730 --> 00:37:22,440 mean you know and you know Mystery 997 00:37:28,010 --> 00:37:25,740 Schools uh mysticism in general 998 00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:28,020 um that started off with uh with you 999 00:37:32,690 --> 00:37:30,300 know my uh in in undergrad and then 1000 00:37:35,329 --> 00:37:32,700 graduate school in the uh American 1001 00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:35,339 romantic literature and then the British 1002 00:37:40,670 --> 00:37:38,760 uh you know uh Romanticism you know 1003 00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:40,680 Shelley Wordsworth Keith and what they 1004 00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,880 were trying to do 1005 00:37:45,530 --> 00:37:44,160 and then you know that would lead you 1006 00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:45,540 through the Germans and the German 1007 00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:47,220 Romanticism and all this kind of stuff 1008 00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:49,140 and it was fascinating and then that 1009 00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,300 leads you to theosophy and allegian to 1010 00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:52,800 all different kinds of things and I 1011 00:37:55,609 --> 00:37:54,000 always found that to be interesting 1012 00:37:56,930 --> 00:37:55,619 because it's uh it's a part of reality 1013 00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:56,940 that we don't really spend a lot of time 1014 00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:57,720 with 1015 00:38:02,750 --> 00:38:00,660 uh but I thought wow but these are the 1016 00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:02,760 hard questions you know that their 1017 00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:04,320 people are discussing 1018 00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:08,160 I I when I had my experience it you know 1019 00:38:14,210 --> 00:38:10,320 I I didn't know what it was about until 1020 00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:14,220 I talked with an agency officer who to 1021 00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,780 this day I don't know his real name he 1022 00:38:20,930 --> 00:38:17,040 was a 1023 00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:20,940 interesting guy Deep Cover guy and uh 1024 00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:23,280 and we were working together and I told 1025 00:38:27,609 --> 00:38:24,960 him what had happened and 1026 00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:27,619 he he had a very strong interest in in 1027 00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:30,720 uaps at the time and he's the one who 1028 00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:33,480 turned me on to uh you know that's the 1029 00:38:37,490 --> 00:38:35,700 first thing he said he said write down 1030 00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:37,500 the names of these books you know so I 1031 00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:39,240 immediately went to Barnes and Noble you 1032 00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,859 know that evening and bought them all 1033 00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:43,200 and that began my journey that was 1034 00:38:49,490 --> 00:38:46,500 salary in 92-93. so I had a pretty firm 1035 00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,500 background in weird stuff you know and 1036 00:38:55,849 --> 00:38:52,320 uh and but once I got into this 1037 00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:55,859 everything changed and then uh during my 1038 00:39:04,970 --> 00:38:59,940 career I would bounce up against this 1039 00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:04,980 on numerous times uh uh two times 1040 00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:08,700 I was offered to I was offered a chance 1041 00:39:12,910 --> 00:39:10,260 to get involved 1042 00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:12,920 both times I turned it down 1043 00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:16,200 uh and it was never brought up again in 1044 00:39:21,290 --> 00:39:19,200 other words you know it was it was done 1045 00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,300 in an unusual way 1046 00:39:25,310 --> 00:39:23,280 that I want to get into it too much but 1047 00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:25,320 um can I just check what I mean I wasn't 1048 00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:26,760 prepared for it to be honest with you I 1049 00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,440 just wasn't prepared for it do you mean 1050 00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,000 you better offered offered to get 1051 00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,640 involved in the UFO study within within 1052 00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:34,560 government is that what you had offered 1053 00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:37,440 uh you know I I I don't know for sure 1054 00:39:41,690 --> 00:39:39,480 simply because 1055 00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:41,700 some people have heard in my story I had 1056 00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:43,200 told my story to some people in the 1057 00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:44,280 agency 1058 00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:46,079 at another point in other areas of 1059 00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,460 government and they found it fascinating 1060 00:39:50,930 --> 00:39:49,440 and you know your word gets around and 1061 00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:50,940 you know there was an invisible College 1062 00:39:55,849 --> 00:39:53,160 uh and there still is to a very large 1063 00:39:58,250 --> 00:39:55,859 degree in in intelligence agencies and 1064 00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,260 throughout the dod of people that are 1065 00:40:01,310 --> 00:40:00,000 interested in this and they meet and 1066 00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:01,320 they talk and they have their own 1067 00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,839 informal conversations 1068 00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:05,520 um I became a 1069 00:40:10,250 --> 00:40:07,980 not a member of that 1070 00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:10,260 um but sort of an outside member sort of 1071 00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:11,880 sticking my nose in and every once in a 1072 00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,380 while you know somebody who knew things 1073 00:40:16,849 --> 00:40:14,880 would come up to me and say look if 1074 00:40:18,770 --> 00:40:16,859 you're really interested I can put you 1075 00:40:21,710 --> 00:40:18,780 in touch with so and so and so and so 1076 00:40:24,290 --> 00:40:21,720 and knowing what I did know about about 1077 00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:24,300 the agency at that time you you know 1078 00:40:27,650 --> 00:40:25,680 everything is secret right and 1079 00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:27,660 everything you have to protect 1080 00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:29,460 and there came a point particularly 1081 00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:30,839 towards the end of my career I didn't 1082 00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:32,280 want to know anything anymore I mean I 1083 00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:33,660 people come into my office and say okay 1084 00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:35,640 we got I got a top secret program I want 1085 00:40:40,609 --> 00:40:37,320 to talk to you about it and there's two 1086 00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,619 versions of it there's a you know we'll 1087 00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:43,440 give you the the sort of the 1088 00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:46,800 outline of what it is and then 1089 00:40:50,329 --> 00:40:48,839 we'll you know the first 15 20 minutes 1090 00:40:52,910 --> 00:40:50,339 telling you that and then we'll get into 1091 00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:52,920 the really in-depth structures of how 1092 00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,720 this thing works and towards the end of 1093 00:40:59,810 --> 00:40:56,640 my career I was just tell these people 1094 00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,820 no you give me give me the 15 minute I'm 1095 00:41:04,370 --> 00:41:01,920 not interested in the two hour I don't 1096 00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:04,380 want to know I I I don't want to know I 1097 00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:06,180 mean I had too much on my head yeah when 1098 00:41:08,990 --> 00:41:07,500 you're when you're in the intelligence 1099 00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,000 business 1100 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,280 you know I I would read the New York 1101 00:41:16,190 --> 00:41:13,440 Times And The Washington Post every 1102 00:41:18,589 --> 00:41:16,200 morning usually the financial times and 1103 00:41:21,290 --> 00:41:18,599 the um Wall Street Journal and then 1104 00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:21,300 always you know the economist 1105 00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:23,160 and these were really good magazines and 1106 00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:24,660 newspapers because you had to stay 1107 00:41:27,710 --> 00:41:26,280 abreast what was going on that was part 1108 00:41:28,970 --> 00:41:27,720 of being an intelligence officer you 1109 00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,980 just had to know what was going on in 1110 00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:30,240 the world 1111 00:41:35,150 --> 00:41:31,440 and 1112 00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:35,160 you can't it's hard it becomes hard to 1113 00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,700 discern sometimes when you're talking to 1114 00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:40,079 somebody about stuff like this you'd be 1115 00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:41,520 like what the hell did I read that did I 1116 00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,560 read that in a classified study or did I 1117 00:41:47,210 --> 00:41:45,359 actually read that in a really good 1118 00:41:50,089 --> 00:41:47,220 issue of the New Yorker where they were 1119 00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,099 talking about yeah and by you know and 1120 00:41:53,870 --> 00:41:51,599 you know once you've been involved for 1121 00:41:55,790 --> 00:41:53,880 like 25 years think oh my God I can't 1122 00:41:59,450 --> 00:41:55,800 make that distinction completely so you 1123 00:42:00,770 --> 00:41:59,460 just don't talk so I I you know I and a 1124 00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,780 lot of people are like that you know in 1125 00:42:03,710 --> 00:42:02,160 the intelligence service they don't want 1126 00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:03,720 to know there's a need to know and if 1127 00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,640 you don't have an absolute need to know 1128 00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:07,920 you know you know I always told people 1129 00:42:11,329 --> 00:42:09,599 there's a problem contact me and then we 1130 00:42:13,790 --> 00:42:11,339 can we can discuss it you know but right 1131 00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:13,800 now you know go with God do what you 1132 00:42:18,589 --> 00:42:16,079 need to do and uh and then keep me 1133 00:42:20,329 --> 00:42:18,599 posted you know that kind of stuff well 1134 00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:20,339 you've been very open to see that you 1135 00:42:25,069 --> 00:42:22,740 have had that experience in 1992 with 1136 00:42:26,569 --> 00:42:25,079 yourself and your wife and um out of 1137 00:42:27,950 --> 00:42:26,579 respect I'm not going to ask you to go 1138 00:42:29,329 --> 00:42:27,960 into detail that's something you've said 1139 00:42:31,609 --> 00:42:29,339 before you're going to do it potentially 1140 00:42:34,370 --> 00:42:31,619 if and when the time is right you did 1141 00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,380 mention that you shared the the details 1142 00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:36,720 at a think tank presentation around six 1143 00:42:41,870 --> 00:42:39,119 months ago yeah and what I would like to 1144 00:42:43,550 --> 00:42:41,880 know is one what was the the audience 1145 00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:43,560 makeup you know was it academic 1146 00:42:48,170 --> 00:42:46,380 scientists Etc and also what was their 1147 00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:48,180 reaction to the telling of yours and 1148 00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:53,270 um the makeup it was a very small group 1149 00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:56,040 you know probably around 20 20 some 1150 00:42:58,010 --> 00:42:56,880 people 1151 00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:58,020 um 1152 00:43:02,750 --> 00:43:01,920 of the people that were there you would 1153 00:43:04,849 --> 00:43:02,760 know them 1154 00:43:05,809 --> 00:43:04,859 all of them uh or pretty much all of 1155 00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:05,819 them 1156 00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:06,540 um 1157 00:43:11,450 --> 00:43:09,240 I would say two-thirds of them were 1158 00:43:13,370 --> 00:43:11,460 experiencers and 1159 00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:13,380 um that was really why the group was put 1160 00:43:16,670 --> 00:43:14,400 together 1161 00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,680 uh a good many of them were scientists 1162 00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:18,240 or academics 1163 00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,780 uh some from the defense industry uh 1164 00:43:26,569 --> 00:43:23,880 journalists 1165 00:43:28,910 --> 00:43:26,579 um all with a very very serious interest 1166 00:43:30,589 --> 00:43:28,920 in this topic and it was 1167 00:43:33,230 --> 00:43:30,599 it was really 1168 00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:33,240 um the first time I ever met with a 1169 00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:35,220 group of like-minded people like to call 1170 00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:37,020 fellow Travelers 1171 00:43:43,790 --> 00:43:39,420 uh you know a lot of them you know were 1172 00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:43,800 authors very well known authors and um 1173 00:43:47,690 --> 00:43:45,720 I my wife and I actually gave the 1174 00:43:49,790 --> 00:43:47,700 presentation and my wife's a 1175 00:43:53,210 --> 00:43:49,800 psychologist 1176 00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:53,220 and uh we went through 1177 00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:54,960 you know everything we had a bunch of 1178 00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:57,180 slides and this is where we lived this 1179 00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,800 is where it happened you know and and 1180 00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:00,780 things along those lines and then and 1181 00:44:06,410 --> 00:44:02,640 then sort of telling the story uh 1182 00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:06,420 chronologically and then picking up uh 1183 00:44:10,609 --> 00:44:07,680 into 1184 00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:10,619 um after some government people found 1185 00:44:16,250 --> 00:44:12,900 out about it in 20 1186 00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,260 I think 14 or 15 and then when you know 1187 00:44:20,329 --> 00:44:18,720 Jacques came to my house and you know 1188 00:44:23,150 --> 00:44:20,339 and interviewed us and then what 1189 00:44:26,270 --> 00:44:23,160 followed after that was really a um 1190 00:44:29,390 --> 00:44:26,280 baptism by fire 1191 00:44:31,010 --> 00:44:29,400 um uh where people would uh people talk 1192 00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:31,020 to me about it in in a classified 1193 00:44:34,270 --> 00:44:33,359 setting and that's and and that's what 1194 00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:34,280 what 1195 00:44:43,849 --> 00:44:40,849 um it just shook me up and 1196 00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:43,859 um and it wasn't like they said 1197 00:44:48,650 --> 00:44:46,740 it wasn't you know that oh you know 1198 00:44:50,270 --> 00:44:48,660 here's pictures of UFOs and here's these 1199 00:44:52,510 --> 00:44:50,280 aliens it was nothing nothing like that 1200 00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:52,520 it was really 1201 00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:55,560 having very serious conversations about 1202 00:45:01,130 --> 00:44:58,440 the nature of the phenomenon 1203 00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:01,140 um serious classified examples of what 1204 00:45:06,890 --> 00:45:04,440 happens when you investigate it um as 1205 00:45:08,809 --> 00:45:06,900 you know and everybody knows it was no 1206 00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:08,819 secret that CIA was interested in 1207 00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:11,160 parapsychology and 1208 00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:14,880 and um the quote unquote weird for many 1209 00:45:18,530 --> 00:45:16,440 many years 1210 00:45:20,809 --> 00:45:18,540 um so when you start hearing you know 1211 00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:20,819 the results of those um 1212 00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:23,940 uh investigations and assessments uh and 1213 00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:27,839 you realize that yeah yeah I mean what 1214 00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:30,060 uh what Jacques valet is talking about 1215 00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:34,319 is uh very very real and um and they 1216 00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:36,119 started explaining to you you know here 1217 00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:37,260 were the classified experiment that 1218 00:45:40,010 --> 00:45:38,760 happened blah blah blah blah and this is 1219 00:45:43,069 --> 00:45:40,020 what resulted 1220 00:45:44,270 --> 00:45:43,079 uh wow you know it put it shook me up I 1221 00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:44,280 have to tell you it really shook me up 1222 00:45:47,390 --> 00:45:45,780 and it wasn't so much that the 1223 00:45:49,609 --> 00:45:47,400 information shook me that was it was a 1224 00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:49,619 fact that so many people were we're 1225 00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:51,119 interested in it and then the 1226 00:45:56,809 --> 00:45:54,480 ramifications of what what it meant and 1227 00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:56,819 and to me I mean it was plainly obvious 1228 00:46:01,069 --> 00:45:59,760 that you know our reality is extremely 1229 00:46:04,130 --> 00:46:01,079 restricted 1230 00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:04,140 uh how we view things and see things I 1231 00:46:07,309 --> 00:46:05,640 mean we live in a 1232 00:46:09,410 --> 00:46:07,319 we're living most of us live in this 1233 00:46:11,390 --> 00:46:09,420 little Dreamland and I think it was T.S 1234 00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:11,400 Eliot who said mankind cannot bear too 1235 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,839 much reality I think that was one of his 1236 00:46:17,329 --> 00:46:15,060 later poems I think four quartets but 1237 00:46:19,370 --> 00:46:17,339 I'm not 100 sure but 1238 00:46:21,470 --> 00:46:19,380 and I think what he meant by that is is 1239 00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:21,480 and that's the first thing that came to 1240 00:46:23,450 --> 00:46:22,500 my mind when I was hearing all this 1241 00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,460 stuff 1242 00:46:27,290 --> 00:46:25,440 I I don't want to note some of this 1243 00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:27,300 stuff I don't want to know that that 1244 00:46:35,569 --> 00:46:30,560 there is a um an element of our reality 1245 00:46:38,210 --> 00:46:35,579 that is that can be intrusive 1246 00:46:40,190 --> 00:46:38,220 that can be controlling 1247 00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:40,200 and that can 1248 00:46:43,370 --> 00:46:41,760 um 1249 00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,380 Act 1250 00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:45,599 anytime it wants to act 1251 00:46:50,990 --> 00:46:49,079 uh for whatever purpose it seems to have 1252 00:46:53,809 --> 00:46:51,000 in other words 1253 00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:53,819 you know we're we don't have any choice 1254 00:46:58,430 --> 00:46:56,460 you know and this goes back to the idea 1255 00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:58,440 of sovereignty 1256 00:47:02,510 --> 00:47:00,720 free will 1257 00:47:04,970 --> 00:47:02,520 and when you understand that and when 1258 00:47:07,069 --> 00:47:04,980 you realize that that is actually the 1259 00:47:07,849 --> 00:47:07,079 case 1260 00:47:12,890 --> 00:47:07,859 um 1261 00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:12,900 you're you immediately also realize 1262 00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:16,260 that your place in the universe is a 1263 00:47:19,849 --> 00:47:17,460 little bit different 1264 00:47:21,770 --> 00:47:19,859 than you thought I mean we all live our 1265 00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,780 lives I mean I live my life just like 1266 00:47:25,370 --> 00:47:23,280 most people right and get up in the 1267 00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:25,380 morning I shave and I take a shower and 1268 00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:29,040 like I read the newspapers and uh I do 1269 00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:30,780 you know the things I need to do work 1270 00:47:34,910 --> 00:47:32,880 around the house you know I go out you 1271 00:47:36,890 --> 00:47:34,920 know and I I lunch with a friend or 1272 00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,900 whatever the story is I spend my time 1273 00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,880 you know in my my little 1274 00:47:42,290 --> 00:47:41,040 my little Library here you know reading 1275 00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:42,300 things along those lines I'm gonna go 1276 00:47:46,910 --> 00:47:44,640 out to dinner none of this stuff you 1277 00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:46,920 know is is really 1278 00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:48,960 um you know impinging on me all the time 1279 00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:50,880 and it's not something that's constantly 1280 00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:54,780 there but it is always there it's it's 1281 00:47:58,730 --> 00:47:56,940 always there it's always in the back of 1282 00:48:00,770 --> 00:47:58,740 my mind 1283 00:48:02,329 --> 00:48:00,780 um and I think 1284 00:48:04,010 --> 00:48:02,339 there'd be something wrong with you if 1285 00:48:07,010 --> 00:48:04,020 you weren't a little afraid 1286 00:48:10,670 --> 00:48:07,020 because you know it's the dark it's a 1287 00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:10,680 void I I don't know I don't know I mean 1288 00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:13,500 we the good news is it's been around 1289 00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:15,839 since prehistory and we're still here uh 1290 00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:17,760 I mean it hasn't wiped us out I I don't 1291 00:48:21,530 --> 00:48:19,740 think I think CIA came up with that 1292 00:48:24,290 --> 00:48:21,540 conclusion too back in the 40 he says 1293 00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:24,300 look yeah this shit's probably real but 1294 00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:26,160 but we can't figure it out but it 1295 00:48:29,329 --> 00:48:27,900 appears it's not it's not you know it's 1296 00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,339 not making any effort to destroy 1297 00:48:32,329 --> 00:48:30,960 anything right 1298 00:48:34,730 --> 00:48:32,339 um there are very very few instances 1299 00:48:36,829 --> 00:48:34,740 where people have actually you know died 1300 00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:36,839 uh and we don't even know if that was 1301 00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:39,300 even intentional on on the part of the 1302 00:48:44,809 --> 00:48:42,660 um of the phenomenon all we do know is 1303 00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,819 that you know it's there it happens it 1304 00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:47,280 exists and when you see the evidence of 1305 00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:48,960 it and when you see particularly how it 1306 00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:51,599 affects people and you see sort of the 1307 00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:53,520 classified evidence of that or at least 1308 00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:55,619 HIPAA restricted evidences it's pretty 1309 00:49:01,010 --> 00:48:57,680 it's pretty fascinating I mean it's it's 1310 00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:01,020 it you know you can't help 1311 00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:02,700 thinking about it you can't help 1312 00:49:05,569 --> 00:49:03,900 wondering 1313 00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:05,579 uh instead of like people who tell me 1314 00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:07,200 like oh this is this is how the world 1315 00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:09,060 works you know my answer is you don't 1316 00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:10,740 know how the world works you have no 1317 00:49:16,130 --> 00:49:12,720 clue how the world works please please 1318 00:49:18,109 --> 00:49:16,140 don't tell me that so I I mean I respect 1319 00:49:20,329 --> 00:49:18,119 religion very very much and I understand 1320 00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:20,339 the need why people want it and hear it 1321 00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:21,660 and you know when they and they have it 1322 00:49:25,250 --> 00:49:23,880 you know I was I was religious myself 1323 00:49:28,010 --> 00:49:25,260 for a while 1324 00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:28,020 uh but then you realize 1325 00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:31,440 no that's not um you know that's that's 1326 00:49:35,150 --> 00:49:33,420 not the answer 1327 00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:35,160 at least for me it wasn't it may be for 1328 00:49:39,290 --> 00:49:37,560 other people I don't know I I often 1329 00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:39,300 think Jim that when you see the clamor 1330 00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:41,220 for for knowing the full truth online 1331 00:49:46,370 --> 00:49:44,400 that if there was that that agent X who 1332 00:49:47,690 --> 00:49:46,380 could invite you into a room and see in 1333 00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:47,700 the next five minutes I'm going to give 1334 00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:49,920 you the full UFO 1335 00:49:52,730 --> 00:49:51,420 um truth and the mysteries of the 1336 00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:52,740 universe and tell you the meaning of 1337 00:49:56,329 --> 00:49:54,720 life and at the end of that five minutes 1338 00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:56,339 you've got the option to take the blue 1339 00:49:59,809 --> 00:49:58,079 pill and leave the room knowing what you 1340 00:50:03,230 --> 00:49:59,819 know or you take the red pill and forget 1341 00:50:04,550 --> 00:50:03,240 what you've been told I think 99.9 of 1342 00:50:05,809 --> 00:50:04,560 people would take the red pill and 1343 00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:05,819 choose to forget what they've just been 1344 00:50:10,370 --> 00:50:07,760 told because it would just be so 1345 00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:10,380 overwhelming and so much weight to go on 1346 00:50:15,470 --> 00:50:13,680 with that yeah we've got that Curiosity 1347 00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:15,480 but they're no doubt is a very scary 1348 00:50:20,569 --> 00:50:18,480 element to all of this because there is 1349 00:50:23,390 --> 00:50:20,579 so much unknown 1350 00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:23,400 yeah yeah you know that that exactly 1351 00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:24,900 right and I think you said it way better 1352 00:50:29,870 --> 00:50:27,420 than I did um um I remember when I used 1353 00:50:32,270 --> 00:50:29,880 to have a conversations uh with Chris 1354 00:50:33,890 --> 00:50:32,280 Mellon uh you know on this uh topic and 1355 00:50:35,390 --> 00:50:33,900 then Lou and then Tom and actually 1356 00:50:38,809 --> 00:50:35,400 everybody Hal 1357 00:50:42,050 --> 00:50:38,819 and uh when TTS was was just Forum ttsa 1358 00:50:43,970 --> 00:50:42,060 was just formed and and the uh 1359 00:50:46,609 --> 00:50:43,980 the the the arguments would always 1360 00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:46,619 always go like you know really 1361 00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:48,180 you know what we're going to be doing 1362 00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:49,740 now we've all made the decision to go 1363 00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:51,240 out and do this we're not going to argue 1364 00:50:54,890 --> 00:50:52,680 about whether this is real with anybody 1365 00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:54,900 we know it's real all of us knew it was 1366 00:50:58,130 --> 00:50:57,359 real I mean we're not going to argue 1367 00:50:59,630 --> 00:50:58,140 with it 1368 00:51:01,490 --> 00:50:59,640 all we're going to do is try to figure 1369 00:51:04,250 --> 00:51:01,500 out what it is 1370 00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:04,260 but one of our one of our uh group who 1371 00:51:11,150 --> 00:51:06,800 wasn't a member of ttsa but a very 1372 00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,160 esteemed colleague and pointed out that 1373 00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:13,680 you understand that when you do this I 1374 00:51:18,829 --> 00:51:16,800 mean you're throwing out an idea 1375 00:51:20,750 --> 00:51:18,839 that is really frightening and it's not 1376 00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,760 only frightening to adults it can be 1377 00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:23,280 very frightening to children 1378 00:51:27,170 --> 00:51:24,720 um and you know and I thought about it 1379 00:51:29,329 --> 00:51:27,180 and I I haven't have these you know hand 1380 00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,339 ringing moments and I remember Chris 1381 00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,440 Mellon said to me once during a 1382 00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:33,119 conversation and he said Jim he said you 1383 00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:33,839 know 1384 00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:36,300 it's the truth the hell are you supposed 1385 00:51:40,849 --> 00:51:38,400 to do with that and he was right and and 1386 00:51:43,130 --> 00:51:40,859 uh in the end he was I think he's right 1387 00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,140 you you can't hide it you can't you 1388 00:51:49,069 --> 00:51:44,880 can't ignore it you can't push it aside 1389 00:51:51,170 --> 00:51:49,079 you have to meet it head on and um 1390 00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:51,180 and I think at that point is is and 1391 00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,800 another thing I decided Well yeah okay 1392 00:51:56,450 --> 00:51:54,960 this is the path we need to take we need 1393 00:51:58,490 --> 00:51:56,460 to clear the air we need to get it out 1394 00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:58,500 there and I've spoken with good people 1395 00:52:01,069 --> 00:51:59,760 in the government at very high levels 1396 00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:01,079 and telling them look we're going to do 1397 00:52:03,950 --> 00:52:02,280 this we're not going to drop any 1398 00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:03,960 classified bombs we're just not going to 1399 00:52:07,609 --> 00:52:06,420 do that but you know we are going to 1400 00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:07,619 talk about this we are going to take 1401 00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:09,359 this private the best way we possibly 1402 00:52:13,069 --> 00:52:10,319 can 1403 00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:13,079 now much to our Chagrin and you know and 1404 00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:14,760 disappointment we 1405 00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,920 did not get the reception we thought we 1406 00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,720 would get from the public I mean we have 1407 00:52:22,190 --> 00:52:20,880 a lot of people like you and you know in 1408 00:52:24,829 --> 00:52:22,200 the community 1409 00:52:27,049 --> 00:52:24,839 who were basically you know saying you 1410 00:52:28,490 --> 00:52:27,059 know fare forward go ahead this is great 1411 00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:28,500 we love it 1412 00:52:32,569 --> 00:52:30,900 and then we also had our naysayers oh 1413 00:52:34,190 --> 00:52:32,579 this is a government operation and all 1414 00:52:35,569 --> 00:52:34,200 this kind of crap you know and that was 1415 00:52:37,549 --> 00:52:35,579 so ridiculous I mean they didn't know 1416 00:52:38,990 --> 00:52:37,559 how to respond to it they just didn't 1417 00:52:39,950 --> 00:52:39,000 know how government works if they knew 1418 00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:39,960 how government works they never would 1419 00:52:45,049 --> 00:52:42,000 say such things but 1420 00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:45,059 um uh but it's a very small group and 1421 00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:46,440 and it's not enough and we're not 1422 00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:48,720 wealthy none of us are uh at least not 1423 00:52:52,970 --> 00:52:50,760 wealthy enough to put you couldn't put 1424 00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:52,980 enough money in I mean we would bankrupt 1425 00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:55,140 Poor Tom Tom's already put you know a 1426 00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:56,880 lot of money into this you know his own 1427 00:53:00,109 --> 00:52:57,599 money 1428 00:53:01,430 --> 00:53:00,119 and uh finally we just said Tom you 1429 00:53:04,250 --> 00:53:01,440 can't you can't do this because it's 1430 00:53:07,370 --> 00:53:04,260 it's it's you it's more money than you 1431 00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:07,380 have we need right and and uh and and we 1432 00:53:13,130 --> 00:53:10,800 need a really uh well-structured 1433 00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:13,140 organization with funding to coming in 1434 00:53:17,329 --> 00:53:15,480 to look at this and we actually need to 1435 00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,339 have more than just 1436 00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:19,440 you know U.S academics looking at this 1437 00:53:24,650 --> 00:53:22,020 we need a worldwide effort 1438 00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:24,660 and we need it to be interactive 1439 00:53:29,390 --> 00:53:26,400 um we have to bring as many people as in 1440 00:53:31,549 --> 00:53:29,400 as we can we have to fund projects at 1441 00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:31,559 different universities around the world 1442 00:53:35,150 --> 00:53:32,880 um we have to bring in religious 1443 00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:35,160 organizations uh psychological 1444 00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:36,780 organizations we have to bring in 1445 00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:38,760 Academia scientists that you know 1446 00:53:45,049 --> 00:53:42,119 because this is a a problem a phenomena 1447 00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:45,059 that you know is layered uh um with 1448 00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:47,160 different um academic disciplines I mean 1449 00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:48,720 they're all involved in this and so what 1450 00:53:53,390 --> 00:53:51,200 do you do you can't ignore any of them 1451 00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,400 including the religious community I mean 1452 00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:54,720 I think probably the most important in 1453 00:53:57,230 --> 00:53:56,160 some respects 1454 00:54:00,349 --> 00:53:57,240 um 1455 00:54:03,410 --> 00:54:00,359 to bring in to this so 1456 00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:03,420 now you're an experiencer you've got a 1457 00:54:06,650 --> 00:54:04,980 lot of experience in being an 1458 00:54:08,569 --> 00:54:06,660 experiencer as a really poor way of 1459 00:54:11,150 --> 00:54:08,579 putting it and but there are people who 1460 00:54:13,370 --> 00:54:11,160 contact myself regularly and others 1461 00:54:15,710 --> 00:54:13,380 online who say they are having all sorts 1462 00:54:18,589 --> 00:54:15,720 of experiences with non-human entities 1463 00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,599 non-human intelligencies I've never had 1464 00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:20,880 that I've had sightings of UFOs pretty 1465 00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,559 close up but I've never had that 1466 00:54:27,530 --> 00:54:25,200 experience like many have what would you 1467 00:54:29,390 --> 00:54:27,540 say to those people who are having these 1468 00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:29,400 experiences potentially uncomfortable 1469 00:54:32,750 --> 00:54:30,420 ones 1470 00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:32,760 that they want this process to hurry up 1471 00:54:37,069 --> 00:54:34,680 so they can find help what can they do 1472 00:54:40,130 --> 00:54:37,079 now and what is your advice to them 1473 00:54:42,890 --> 00:54:40,140 that's a very good question I get uh 1474 00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:42,900 contacted probably once or twice a week 1475 00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,040 by people experiencers who've either had 1476 00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:49,920 positive experiences or in some negative 1477 00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:53,280 and and some of them are very worrisome 1478 00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:54,240 um 1479 00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:58,020 and the problem is I I I can't do too 1480 00:55:01,490 --> 00:54:59,760 much I don't know what to do I mean I 1481 00:55:03,049 --> 00:55:01,500 live where I live and they live maybe 1482 00:55:05,809 --> 00:55:03,059 halfway around the world or halfway 1483 00:55:07,549 --> 00:55:05,819 across the country I can't jump in a car 1484 00:55:09,049 --> 00:55:07,559 and come back and even if I did I you 1485 00:55:11,630 --> 00:55:09,059 know looking out of my 1486 00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:11,640 I said I don't have the 1487 00:55:15,530 --> 00:55:13,920 capability to spend all my time 1488 00:55:17,930 --> 00:55:15,540 investigating your case and even if I 1489 00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:17,940 did I am not a UF UAP researcher by any 1490 00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:19,859 stretch of the imagination I usually 1491 00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:22,020 refer them to mufon or another 1492 00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:24,000 organization that you know could 1493 00:55:28,490 --> 00:55:26,160 possibly help them or refer them to some 1494 00:55:30,109 --> 00:55:28,500 literature and books that may be helpful 1495 00:55:31,730 --> 00:55:30,119 to explain it to them when I do tell 1496 00:55:34,970 --> 00:55:31,740 them though in the end 1497 00:55:38,569 --> 00:55:34,980 is it's very rare that this is going to 1498 00:55:40,010 --> 00:55:38,579 damage you uh physically and it the only 1499 00:55:42,410 --> 00:55:40,020 way it could damage you psychologically 1500 00:55:43,210 --> 00:55:42,420 is if you allow it to 1501 00:55:45,470 --> 00:55:43,220 um 1502 00:55:47,930 --> 00:55:45,480 there are there there is one 1503 00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,940 organization uh Stuart Davis as a 1504 00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:49,680 wonderful organization I think it's 1505 00:55:53,089 --> 00:55:51,240 called the experiencer group I hope I'm 1506 00:55:56,569 --> 00:55:53,099 not murdering that but he is an 1507 00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,579 extraordinary smart guy and it's 1508 00:56:01,790 --> 00:55:58,079 basically for a group of people that 1509 00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:01,800 having a hard time you know working uh 1510 00:56:04,790 --> 00:56:03,720 with with the experiences that they've 1511 00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:04,800 had 1512 00:56:10,430 --> 00:56:06,720 and he has some pretty good protocols I 1513 00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,440 think that are very helpful uh and uh 1514 00:56:16,130 --> 00:56:13,200 look up his name Stuart Davis and um and 1515 00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:16,140 you can join his organization I think 1516 00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:17,760 it's incredibly cheap I think like 10 1517 00:56:21,170 --> 00:56:18,960 bucks or something I don't know I've 1518 00:56:22,849 --> 00:56:21,180 hosted a few of them on the podcast to 1519 00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:22,859 tell their stories and and have that in 1520 00:56:28,430 --> 00:56:24,559 the past yeah 1521 00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:28,440 I always recommend uh Stu Stewart uh you 1522 00:56:31,730 --> 00:56:30,240 know his group to people who are having 1523 00:56:33,170 --> 00:56:31,740 a hard time 1524 00:56:34,849 --> 00:56:33,180 um I am in touch with some people do I 1525 00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:34,859 do have a long-term relationship with 1526 00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:38,700 and I have had uh Chris Chris Bledsoe um 1527 00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:40,559 uh his new book will be coming out 1528 00:56:44,290 --> 00:56:42,240 hopefully in the uh 1529 00:56:46,130 --> 00:56:44,300 late fall early winter 1530 00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:46,140 I've been asked to write the 1531 00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:49,680 introduction and I'm honored to do that 1532 00:56:57,049 --> 00:56:53,520 uh for him uh I find his experience to 1533 00:56:59,530 --> 00:56:57,059 be really one of the classics of the 1534 00:57:02,390 --> 00:56:59,540 20th century 1535 00:57:05,329 --> 00:57:02,400 just encompasses so much and it's it's 1536 00:57:07,069 --> 00:57:05,339 done wonders for him as a human being I 1537 00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:07,079 consider him one of the nicest beings on 1538 00:57:10,490 --> 00:57:08,880 the planet so he probably but people 1539 00:57:13,549 --> 00:57:10,500 told me it was like that before the 1540 00:57:16,190 --> 00:57:13,559 experience so I don't know yeah his book 1541 00:57:18,410 --> 00:57:16,200 is UFO of God then people can go to UFO 1542 00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:18,420 of god.com to check that out in 1543 00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:20,160 pre-order it and before any listeners 1544 00:57:24,650 --> 00:57:21,960 get in touch I am in the queue for an 1545 00:57:26,210 --> 00:57:24,660 interview with Mr Bledsoe senior and I 1546 00:57:28,250 --> 00:57:26,220 was in touch with Chris and he said 1547 00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,260 here's the details so that one will 1548 00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:30,000 hopefully happen the other time so don't 1549 00:57:34,130 --> 00:57:31,859 worry about that one folks 1550 00:57:35,930 --> 00:57:34,140 um we've talked a lot about experiences 1551 00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:35,940 the maybe more spiritual side of the 1552 00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:38,160 phenomenon so far I wanted to touch on 1553 00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:40,200 the nuts and bolts aspect of the fun on 1554 00:57:44,690 --> 00:57:42,720 phenomenon as we go on Jim we've heard 1555 00:57:46,790 --> 00:57:44,700 over and over about events like the 1556 00:57:49,130 --> 00:57:46,800 Nimitz Princeton the Omaha the Russell 1557 00:57:51,530 --> 00:57:49,140 where we have these objects Tic Tacs 1558 00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:51,540 spheres cubes inside of spheres that are 1559 00:57:55,250 --> 00:57:53,400 coming into contact with these kind of 1560 00:57:57,770 --> 00:57:55,260 carrier groups and Pilots 1561 00:58:00,530 --> 00:57:57,780 all all of these seem to be that the US 1562 00:58:03,230 --> 00:58:00,540 Navy are are being observed by whatever 1563 00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:03,240 these UAP are because we don't hear too 1564 00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,420 too much anyway about direct contact or 1565 00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:08,880 being engaged in any threatening way 1566 00:58:17,390 --> 00:58:11,520 do you think that these objects at large 1567 00:58:21,890 --> 00:58:20,630 um I I I I don't think so I think 1568 00:58:24,290 --> 00:58:21,900 anything 1569 00:58:26,030 --> 00:58:24,300 I I you know I don't know I mean that's 1570 00:58:28,730 --> 00:58:26,040 the answer to the question is I don't 1571 00:58:31,730 --> 00:58:28,740 know but but looking at this 1572 00:58:34,370 --> 00:58:31,740 these are these are entities or an 1573 00:58:37,130 --> 00:58:34,380 intelligence that's been around forever 1574 00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:37,140 uh the fact that they're showing up 1575 00:58:43,309 --> 00:58:40,799 in craft that may or may not be real I 1576 00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:43,319 mean that may be physical and subjective 1577 00:58:46,730 --> 00:58:45,359 at the same time 1578 00:58:48,170 --> 00:58:46,740 um that are able to do and it's 1579 00:58:52,069 --> 00:58:48,180 incredible things 1580 00:58:54,650 --> 00:58:52,079 you know are they waving hello to us are 1581 00:58:55,870 --> 00:58:54,660 they basically saying we're here just so 1582 00:58:59,690 --> 00:58:55,880 you know 1583 00:59:01,490 --> 00:58:59,700 uh but this whole idea of them observing 1584 00:59:04,849 --> 00:59:01,500 us there are so many ways to do this 1585 00:59:06,589 --> 00:59:04,859 without showing themselves 1586 00:59:07,970 --> 00:59:06,599 they're creating something I mean 1587 00:59:09,829 --> 00:59:07,980 they're they're they're they're 1588 00:59:12,289 --> 00:59:09,839 basically creating something they're 1589 00:59:14,569 --> 00:59:12,299 creating a theater a piece of theater I 1590 00:59:15,890 --> 00:59:14,579 think where they're saying look you know 1591 00:59:18,049 --> 00:59:15,900 we're here 1592 00:59:19,789 --> 00:59:18,059 you can't make heads or tails of us and 1593 00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:19,799 this is what we can do 1594 00:59:24,410 --> 00:59:22,920 uh but really you really don't know what 1595 00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:24,420 we can do 1596 00:59:28,430 --> 00:59:26,160 um they're precognitive in the sense 1597 00:59:30,109 --> 00:59:28,440 that they appear to know 1598 00:59:31,789 --> 00:59:30,119 you know they could read the future they 1599 00:59:32,930 --> 00:59:31,799 appeared to know what what we're going 1600 00:59:34,609 --> 00:59:32,940 to be doing 1601 00:59:36,950 --> 00:59:34,619 when we don't even know what we're doing 1602 00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:36,960 and they it's it's like 1603 00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:38,940 well there you know it's a classic 1604 00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:41,280 control mechanism in a sense I mean are 1605 00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:43,200 they directing us I mean are they really 1606 00:59:47,450 --> 00:59:45,480 sort of moving the chess pieces for us 1607 00:59:49,370 --> 00:59:47,460 and we're not even aware of it I don't 1608 00:59:51,410 --> 00:59:49,380 know it's mind-boggling to even think of 1609 00:59:52,549 --> 00:59:51,420 all this 1610 00:59:55,250 --> 00:59:52,559 um you know this whole even this whole 1611 00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:55,260 concept with hybridization and things 1612 01:00:02,270 --> 01:00:00,589 but you really have to tell people 1613 01:00:04,370 --> 01:00:02,280 you're doing this I mean you know 1614 01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:04,380 wouldn't you just do it and put a false 1615 01:00:07,789 --> 01:00:06,180 memory in there and you know I mean I 1616 01:00:10,130 --> 01:00:07,799 remember in passport to begonia you know 1617 01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:10,140 the new book The Jacques thing where he 1618 01:00:14,089 --> 01:00:12,480 had an alien with a mask and then the 1619 01:00:16,609 --> 01:00:14,099 mask had another mask and another mouse 1620 01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:16,619 you don't know how far you know you 1621 01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:18,240 don't know I mean it's it's and it 1622 01:00:22,849 --> 01:00:20,640 creates this I mean it clearly is to me 1623 01:00:25,549 --> 01:00:22,859 at least it's it's it it deliberately 1624 01:00:27,890 --> 01:00:25,559 created this illusion right 1625 01:00:30,530 --> 01:00:27,900 and um and it's I think it's meant to 1626 01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:30,540 confuse us and confound us 1627 01:00:34,670 --> 01:00:33,240 um uh and and you know it's it's very 1628 01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:34,680 disturbing and I 1629 01:00:37,370 --> 01:00:35,280 um 1630 01:00:41,210 --> 01:00:37,380 you know people 1631 01:00:44,210 --> 01:00:41,220 you know get angry with the government 1632 01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:44,220 about not coming out you know with what 1633 01:00:50,329 --> 01:00:45,599 they know 1634 01:00:54,770 --> 01:00:50,339 and um I I am of the opinion and that 1635 01:00:56,990 --> 01:00:54,780 they don't know much more than we do I 1636 01:01:00,470 --> 01:00:57,000 I I'll speak hypothetically here 1637 01:01:03,049 --> 01:01:00,480 you know do they have physical evidence 1638 01:01:04,970 --> 01:01:03,059 hypothetically speaking in my opinion I 1639 01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:04,980 think they do 1640 01:01:10,809 --> 01:01:07,920 um do they understand what they have 1641 01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:10,819 hypothetically in my opinion I doubt it 1642 01:01:14,530 --> 01:01:13,440 uh uh 1643 01:01:19,010 --> 01:01:14,540 and 1644 01:01:22,670 --> 01:01:19,020 my belief my that belief is based on 1645 01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:22,680 um information I know for a fact 1646 01:01:25,490 --> 01:01:24,480 about 1647 01:01:27,410 --> 01:01:25,500 um 1648 01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:27,420 uh 1649 01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,240 money right it's funding and you fight 1650 01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:38,400 for that money and everybody fights for 1651 01:01:42,410 --> 01:01:40,020 the money right you know if you've ever 1652 01:01:44,990 --> 01:01:42,420 been to a pentagon uh meeting with a 1653 01:01:46,730 --> 01:01:45,000 quote-unquote rack and stack projects I 1654 01:01:48,470 --> 01:01:46,740 mean the knives come out I mean you know 1655 01:01:50,089 --> 01:01:48,480 because you're talking you know 50 1656 01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:50,099 million dollar programs and this is even 1657 01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,720 the big the billion dollar programs 1658 01:01:55,849 --> 01:01:54,000 those are all set in stone usually at a 1659 01:01:57,289 --> 01:01:55,859 higher level when you start fighting for 1660 01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:57,299 small amounts of money you know when I 1661 01:02:02,930 --> 01:02:00,000 say small 20 50 100 million dollars 1662 01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:02,940 the knives come out 1663 01:02:08,210 --> 01:02:05,940 um and if you want a continuation of a 1664 01:02:10,010 --> 01:02:08,220 project you had better show some kind of 1665 01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:10,020 success 1666 01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:12,960 um think about think about uaps and 1667 01:02:18,289 --> 01:02:14,760 think about the phenomenon 1668 01:02:21,170 --> 01:02:18,299 and let's say in 1947 1669 01:02:22,849 --> 01:02:21,180 um the Air Force decides look we can't 1670 01:02:24,829 --> 01:02:22,859 ignore this if it's a one in ten 1671 01:02:26,930 --> 01:02:24,839 thousand chance this is real and you 1672 01:02:28,549 --> 01:02:26,940 know one of the Air Force commanders did 1673 01:02:31,549 --> 01:02:28,559 say this right I don't attempt for that 1674 01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:31,559 we have to look at it cias of the same 1675 01:02:37,010 --> 01:02:33,599 opinion CI is saying look you know we 1676 01:02:38,750 --> 01:02:37,020 don't understand any of this uh we but 1677 01:02:40,010 --> 01:02:38,760 the chances are it you know it's 1678 01:02:41,870 --> 01:02:40,020 probably real 1679 01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:41,880 um uh but we don't know what it is it 1680 01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:43,980 doesn't seem to want to do any major 1681 01:02:49,069 --> 01:02:45,780 damage to anything but we need to look 1682 01:02:50,809 --> 01:02:49,079 at this and CIA statute basically said 1683 01:02:51,950 --> 01:02:50,819 they're they're the ones that have to 1684 01:02:53,690 --> 01:02:51,960 pull all this together from the 1685 01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:53,700 different agencies and what have you do 1686 01:02:56,750 --> 01:02:54,960 you honestly think they weren't doing 1687 01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:56,760 this of course they were doing this of 1688 01:03:00,170 --> 01:02:58,079 course they had programs but those 1689 01:03:02,809 --> 01:03:00,180 programs they get funding for those 1690 01:03:05,210 --> 01:03:02,819 programs you have to show some type of 1691 01:03:07,670 --> 01:03:05,220 progress well how the hell are you going 1692 01:03:09,049 --> 01:03:07,680 to explain the impossible to anybody I 1693 01:03:11,089 --> 01:03:09,059 mean how are you supposed to make any 1694 01:03:13,309 --> 01:03:11,099 process at all I'm a progress at all 1695 01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:13,319 when you're dealing with technology nuts 1696 01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:15,839 and bills technology that may be the 1697 01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:18,799 you know one to two orders of magnitude 1698 01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:21,599 greater than what you understand or what 1699 01:03:26,569 --> 01:03:23,700 you're what you're but it's possible for 1700 01:03:29,930 --> 01:03:26,579 you to understand and and that becomes 1701 01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:29,940 readily apparent so uh based on my uh 1702 01:03:33,530 --> 01:03:31,200 you know my working with the 1703 01:03:34,730 --> 01:03:33,540 intelligence organization and I dealt 1704 01:03:36,289 --> 01:03:34,740 with a lot of high-tech stuff while I 1705 01:03:37,970 --> 01:03:36,299 was in CIA 1706 01:03:40,250 --> 01:03:37,980 um 1707 01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,260 you if you don't make any project 1708 01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,720 process you have to sort of put it aside 1709 01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:44,640 and you have to say okay we're not there 1710 01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,020 yet we don't have the tools to 1711 01:03:51,470 --> 01:03:49,200 understand this let's just wait and see 1712 01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:51,480 if when new technology comes up we can 1713 01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:52,799 revisit it and I think that's what's 1714 01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,680 been going on but I don't think 1715 01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:57,599 um I don't think we're there yet 1716 01:04:02,089 --> 01:04:00,240 so my point is 1717 01:04:04,730 --> 01:04:02,099 uh would be 1718 01:04:06,770 --> 01:04:04,740 um they get I'm sure that there's money 1719 01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,780 uh being thrown at this I think the Navy 1720 01:04:11,030 --> 01:04:08,640 program the OSAP and the atip program 1721 01:04:13,549 --> 01:04:11,040 was a very very small program 1722 01:04:15,289 --> 01:04:13,559 really singled out by the Navy I don't 1723 01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:15,299 think it was any part of a much greater 1724 01:04:19,549 --> 01:04:16,559 program that's probably you're out there 1725 01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:19,559 Legacy programs that are out there 1726 01:04:24,049 --> 01:04:22,079 um uh they're being hidden I think for 1727 01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:24,059 some reason you know and I'm sure it's a 1728 01:04:29,329 --> 01:04:27,599 good reason uh uh you know people say 1729 01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:29,339 well we have a right to know absolutely 1730 01:04:34,130 --> 01:04:31,920 we have it right now but seriously 1731 01:04:35,630 --> 01:04:34,140 what's not to know I mean you know I 1732 01:04:37,370 --> 01:04:35,640 mean if the government is basically not 1733 01:04:38,990 --> 01:04:37,380 telling you something 1734 01:04:40,370 --> 01:04:39,000 I'd like to give them the benefit of 1735 01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:40,380 Doubt and say okay you're not telling me 1736 01:04:44,030 --> 01:04:42,059 for you know one or two reasons number 1737 01:04:45,950 --> 01:04:44,040 one we're working on trying to reimburse 1738 01:04:47,329 --> 01:04:45,960 uh reverse engineer to technology even 1739 01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:47,339 though we don't know how we can do it 1740 01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:48,720 but nevertheless we're making some ad 1741 01:04:52,970 --> 01:04:50,400 way so they don't want anybody else to 1742 01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:52,980 know about it understandable 1743 01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:55,680 um uh or 1744 01:05:02,690 --> 01:04:59,760 the scary part is they do know and 1745 01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:02,700 they they end up with something that is 1746 01:05:08,089 --> 01:05:04,079 so frightening 1747 01:05:10,250 --> 01:05:08,099 general population of the world they 1748 01:05:11,690 --> 01:05:10,260 don't want to discuss it they know it 1749 01:05:13,789 --> 01:05:11,700 would cause more problems than it would 1750 01:05:16,130 --> 01:05:13,799 be worth so that's sort of where I stand 1751 01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:16,140 and so I I say 1752 01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:18,839 well let them sit on it they don't own 1753 01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:21,599 this we own this there's nothing they 1754 01:05:26,569 --> 01:05:23,640 can do that we can't do on the outside 1755 01:05:28,370 --> 01:05:26,579 that we can't do privately we have the 1756 01:05:29,690 --> 01:05:28,380 brain power out there we have and we 1757 01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:29,700 have the money is out there we're just 1758 01:05:33,170 --> 01:05:31,440 trying to get a hold of it right to to 1759 01:05:35,329 --> 01:05:33,180 actually start doing the research there 1760 01:05:36,650 --> 01:05:35,339 we shouldn't be waiting for the 1761 01:05:38,329 --> 01:05:36,660 government to tell us anything the 1762 01:05:40,370 --> 01:05:38,339 government exists for one reason you 1763 01:05:42,049 --> 01:05:40,380 know I mean the security establishment 1764 01:05:44,809 --> 01:05:42,059 that's a defense of the United States 1765 01:05:46,490 --> 01:05:44,819 that's it so all they're concerned about 1766 01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:46,500 is that if you read the you know the 1767 01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:48,480 National Defense authorization act it's 1768 01:05:52,130 --> 01:05:50,760 it's it's basically saying look we're 1769 01:05:53,930 --> 01:05:52,140 going to look at this so there's no more 1770 01:05:55,849 --> 01:05:53,940 Pearl Harbors that's all they want to do 1771 01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:55,859 so they're going to look at and then how 1772 01:05:58,849 --> 01:05:57,960 can weaponize the technology that's what 1773 01:06:00,770 --> 01:05:58,859 they're about 1774 01:06:02,510 --> 01:06:00,780 that's not what you're about and that's 1775 01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:02,520 certainly not what I'm about and what 1776 01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:04,260 most of the UFO Community is about we 1777 01:06:07,609 --> 01:06:06,240 want to get to the bottom of this 1778 01:06:09,770 --> 01:06:07,619 why the hell are we waiting for the 1779 01:06:11,630 --> 01:06:09,780 government who has a single mind on this 1780 01:06:13,309 --> 01:06:11,640 right and and they're not and you know 1781 01:06:15,829 --> 01:06:13,319 and why would they share it tell a 1782 01:06:18,890 --> 01:06:15,839 friend you tell an enemy we have to do 1783 01:06:21,049 --> 01:06:18,900 this that was the purpose of TTS ttsa 1784 01:06:23,030 --> 01:06:21,059 when it started that's that's the 1785 01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:23,040 purpose of mufon that's the purpose of 1786 01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:25,920 every single UFO or UAP organization out 1787 01:06:30,170 --> 01:06:28,079 there that's a that's what Abby Loeb 1788 01:06:31,609 --> 01:06:30,180 wants to do you know with his antennas 1789 01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,619 and his telescopes and everything like 1790 01:06:36,890 --> 01:06:34,079 that it's great project 1791 01:06:38,569 --> 01:06:36,900 um but you know they want to do it 1792 01:06:40,010 --> 01:06:38,579 without the help of the government would 1793 01:06:41,150 --> 01:06:40,020 it be nice if the government gave us 1794 01:06:42,770 --> 01:06:41,160 money yes 1795 01:06:44,569 --> 01:06:42,780 they're not going to do that 1796 01:06:47,210 --> 01:06:44,579 obviously the government has a lot of 1797 01:06:48,890 --> 01:06:47,220 control over when these events happen 1798 01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:48,900 with the Navy they are Force whatever 1799 01:06:54,109 --> 01:06:51,119 that may happen nuclear sites and such 1800 01:06:56,329 --> 01:06:54,119 however there are numerous other events 1801 01:06:59,210 --> 01:06:56,339 like the Phoenix Lights that is well 1802 01:07:01,190 --> 01:06:59,220 documented however frustratingly lacking 1803 01:07:02,930 --> 01:07:01,200 in data that we know of because of when 1804 01:07:05,150 --> 01:07:02,940 it happened it was just before cell 1805 01:07:07,309 --> 01:07:05,160 phones had cameras and cameras were 1806 01:07:09,470 --> 01:07:07,319 largely available however there have 1807 01:07:13,010 --> 01:07:09,480 been public landings like the Ariel 1808 01:07:16,010 --> 01:07:13,020 school where apparently a craft landed 1809 01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:16,020 near school children almost 100 of them 1810 01:07:19,549 --> 01:07:17,760 observed this and we've seen the 1811 01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:19,559 Fantastic documentary that came out this 1812 01:07:23,690 --> 01:07:22,319 year the moment of contact documentary 1813 01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:23,700 is due out in a couple of weeks from 1814 01:07:28,670 --> 01:07:25,920 James Fox about the Virginia Brazil 1815 01:07:31,069 --> 01:07:28,680 incident as well white is a phenomenon 1816 01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:31,079 choose to show itself in your opinion to 1817 01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:35,520 to some people and such a a Brash way 1818 01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:39,480 yet for others it's hidden in the sky at 1819 01:07:45,890 --> 01:07:42,240 a distance very spurious hard to collect 1820 01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:45,900 data why is it so haphazard in its 1821 01:07:48,529 --> 01:07:47,280 presentation do you think when it could 1822 01:07:51,049 --> 01:07:48,539 just land in the middle of New York 1823 01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:55,490 you know I I grew up in a town called 1824 01:08:01,430 --> 01:07:58,799 Youngstown Ohio Rough and Tumble 1825 01:08:03,650 --> 01:08:01,440 and my Youngstown answer would be 1826 01:08:05,569 --> 01:08:03,660 because they're because they 1827 01:08:07,309 --> 01:08:05,579 basically screw with us right they're 1828 01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:07,319 just screwing with us and and you know 1829 01:08:12,770 --> 01:08:09,119 not now 1830 01:08:14,690 --> 01:08:12,780 that's how I feel inside it's like um 1831 01:08:16,249 --> 01:08:14,700 you know 1832 01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:16,259 kids I grew up that's what we would say 1833 01:08:19,610 --> 01:08:17,940 you know I think quit screwing with our 1834 01:08:20,990 --> 01:08:19,620 heads you know you you Bunch 1835 01:08:23,090 --> 01:08:21,000 well they they're doing this they're 1836 01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:23,100 constantly doing this 1837 01:08:26,169 --> 01:08:24,480 um that's that trickster element to it 1838 01:08:29,630 --> 01:08:26,179 but it's also an element of of 1839 01:08:31,729 --> 01:08:29,640 obfuscation uh camouflage 1840 01:08:33,410 --> 01:08:31,739 there's a reason they're doing that I 1841 01:08:37,070 --> 01:08:33,420 don't know what that reason is 1842 01:08:41,749 --> 01:08:38,930 um and you know there's an element to it 1843 01:08:43,970 --> 01:08:41,759 again that's scary I mean I you know one 1844 01:08:45,410 --> 01:08:43,980 of my one of my friends who and one of 1845 01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:45,420 probably one of the best researchers in 1846 01:08:50,269 --> 01:08:48,239 the field Robert Hastings uh you know 1847 01:08:52,610 --> 01:08:50,279 who wrote you know UFOs and nukes and 1848 01:08:54,530 --> 01:08:52,620 confessions uh two wonderful books um 1849 01:08:57,530 --> 01:08:54,540 people haven't read them and you should 1850 01:08:59,709 --> 01:08:57,540 read them but we had conversations and 1851 01:09:04,370 --> 01:08:59,719 and uh Robert 1852 01:09:06,530 --> 01:09:04,380 calls it the mere response and um and I 1853 01:09:08,150 --> 01:09:06,540 had I you know and I I asked him what he 1854 01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:08,160 meant by that and he said it's funny 1855 01:09:12,530 --> 01:09:10,560 because he's had experiences and he said 1856 01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:12,540 after the experience he just you know 1857 01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:15,120 even with my wife and I we had this 1858 01:09:18,650 --> 01:09:16,799 this incredible experience I was really 1859 01:09:21,530 --> 01:09:18,660 excited and after like a while I was 1860 01:09:24,349 --> 01:09:21,540 like Hey gotta go on with my life 1861 01:09:28,030 --> 01:09:24,359 um uh I I had a I'll give you a one 1862 01:09:29,749 --> 01:09:28,040 quick example uh uh I was at a 1863 01:09:33,410 --> 01:09:29,759 awake 1864 01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:33,420 for um uh my one of my wife's mentors a 1865 01:09:40,450 --> 01:09:36,480 very well-known uh 1866 01:09:43,849 --> 01:09:40,460 biologist uh who um 1867 01:09:45,709 --> 01:09:43,859 discovered the opiate receptors in the 1868 01:09:48,590 --> 01:09:45,719 brain and she's wonderful wonderful 1869 01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:48,600 person wrote a bunch of books uh and 1870 01:09:53,390 --> 01:09:52,080 we're at this wake and um there's a 1871 01:09:55,370 --> 01:09:53,400 bunch of people gather around mostly 1872 01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:55,380 scientists I didn't know 1873 01:10:01,070 --> 01:09:58,800 um I ran into a scientist I won't tell 1874 01:10:03,229 --> 01:10:01,080 her name Harvard trained and she tells 1875 01:10:05,750 --> 01:10:03,239 me this story and 1876 01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:05,760 um she was um she lived out west 1877 01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:08,880 Colorado or someplace and she was and 1878 01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:10,320 her husband were getting ready to go out 1879 01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:12,239 or something and she had a she was in 1880 01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:14,400 her bedroom and she had a robe on and 1881 01:10:20,209 --> 01:10:17,400 she had a little porch 1882 01:10:22,610 --> 01:10:20,219 off and she was on the side of a hill 1883 01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:22,620 and she notices something funny she goes 1884 01:10:29,390 --> 01:10:25,440 out on the porch and she looks up and 1885 01:10:32,290 --> 01:10:29,400 300 feet away is a disc right classic 1886 01:10:34,970 --> 01:10:32,300 Flying Saucer right little Dome on top 1887 01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:34,980 inverted saucers together 1888 01:10:39,950 --> 01:10:37,920 now Harvard PhD 1889 01:10:42,890 --> 01:10:39,960 she's staring at it 1890 01:10:45,530 --> 01:10:42,900 and she can't believe her eyes 1891 01:10:47,570 --> 01:10:45,540 but she knows enough to go in and and 1892 01:10:50,450 --> 01:10:47,580 get her husband you know and said you 1893 01:10:53,689 --> 01:10:50,460 know get a camera come on out 1894 01:10:55,010 --> 01:10:53,699 so the husband knows you know what the 1895 01:10:56,930 --> 01:10:55,020 hell you know you know we've got to get 1896 01:10:59,090 --> 01:10:56,940 going no no come out get the camera and 1897 01:11:01,370 --> 01:10:59,100 so he comes out on the camera and 1898 01:11:03,050 --> 01:11:01,380 they're both staying there never took a 1899 01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:03,060 picture 1900 01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:05,040 this thing was there and she said for 1901 01:11:09,830 --> 01:11:06,840 about two or three minutes 1902 01:11:12,050 --> 01:11:09,840 and he never thought of picking that 1903 01:11:13,450 --> 01:11:12,060 camera up and taking that photograph it 1904 01:11:16,550 --> 01:11:13,460 would have been the photograph of the 1905 01:11:18,770 --> 01:11:16,560 Millennia right 1906 01:11:20,689 --> 01:11:18,780 thing takes off shoot straight up into 1907 01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:20,699 the sky you know it was like it was 1908 01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:23,040 there and it wasn't there just gone they 1909 01:11:28,610 --> 01:11:24,960 come back in 1910 01:11:32,689 --> 01:11:28,620 and they didn't discuss it 1911 01:11:34,910 --> 01:11:32,699 um at all they just went ahead took 1912 01:11:37,790 --> 01:11:34,920 their showers got ready got dressed went 1913 01:11:39,530 --> 01:11:37,800 to the went to the thing and she said he 1914 01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:39,540 just never discussed it as a husband and 1915 01:11:44,330 --> 01:11:42,960 wife until long after it happened 1916 01:11:46,189 --> 01:11:44,340 and they still don't know what to make 1917 01:11:47,689 --> 01:11:46,199 of it and I remember Robert you know 1918 01:11:49,850 --> 01:11:47,699 Hastings telling me yeah it's sort of 1919 01:11:51,830 --> 01:11:49,860 like the you know this response is like 1920 01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:51,840 these things happen and a lot of people 1921 01:11:54,590 --> 01:11:53,520 when they have these you know hundreds 1922 01:11:57,770 --> 01:11:54,600 of thousands of people have had this 1923 01:12:00,890 --> 01:11:57,780 experience like wow isn't that strange 1924 01:12:02,570 --> 01:12:00,900 I another one uh you know a a young man 1925 01:12:04,370 --> 01:12:02,580 and I I 1926 01:12:06,169 --> 01:12:04,380 you know had a conversation we have been 1927 01:12:07,130 --> 01:12:06,179 having conversations with for the last 1928 01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:07,140 six months 1929 01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:08,880 you know telling me about his experience 1930 01:12:12,590 --> 01:12:10,260 he had 1931 01:12:13,850 --> 01:12:12,600 driving near White Sands Missile base at 1932 01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:13,860 night with a bunch of other military 1933 01:12:17,390 --> 01:12:15,360 guys and 1934 01:12:20,570 --> 01:12:17,400 they get this big light that shines down 1935 01:12:22,010 --> 01:12:20,580 on their vehicle 1936 01:12:25,070 --> 01:12:22,020 and 1937 01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:25,080 somebody's saying it's it's an object or 1938 01:12:29,450 --> 01:12:26,159 whatever it looks like a blue light 1939 01:12:31,370 --> 01:12:29,460 comes into the vehicle and they stopped 1940 01:12:34,669 --> 01:12:31,380 the car and that's all they remember 1941 01:12:36,530 --> 01:12:34,679 there was like four or five of them and 1942 01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:36,540 then the next thing they know they're 1943 01:12:40,189 --> 01:12:38,880 just driving down the road to wherever 1944 01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:40,199 they were going 1945 01:12:43,729 --> 01:12:42,239 and it was the first time he'd even 1946 01:12:46,550 --> 01:12:43,739 mention it since it happened but he 1947 01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:46,560 mentioned it to me like 20 years later 1948 01:12:50,810 --> 01:12:49,199 and he said I don't know why we didn't 1949 01:12:54,770 --> 01:12:50,820 even talk about it it was just something 1950 01:12:56,990 --> 01:12:54,780 that so you know what's going on here 1951 01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:57,000 um you know it's it's the phenomenon I 1952 01:13:00,890 --> 01:12:57,840 think 1953 01:13:07,510 --> 01:13:04,610 either imposing some type of cloud of 1954 01:13:10,189 --> 01:13:07,520 you know uh cloudiness over our our 1955 01:13:12,470 --> 01:13:10,199 fogginess over our minds or maybe 1956 01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:12,480 instructing us not to do that not to 1957 01:13:19,070 --> 01:13:16,080 discuss it not to discuss it openly or 1958 01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:19,080 putting it off until long after the 1959 01:13:25,070 --> 01:13:20,940 event has occurred 1960 01:13:27,709 --> 01:13:25,080 uh you know once again it's it's not a 1961 01:13:31,250 --> 01:13:27,719 uh a trusted interlocutor 1962 01:13:33,770 --> 01:13:31,260 by any stretch of the imagination so 1963 01:13:34,850 --> 01:13:33,780 let me give you an example I you know I 1964 01:13:36,950 --> 01:13:34,860 I mentioned this before in another 1965 01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:36,960 podcast I was visited once by a 1966 01:13:39,890 --> 01:13:38,760 quote-unquote messenger being you know 1967 01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:39,900 there's a little 1968 01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:41,640 hooded figures that came into my bedroom 1969 01:13:45,709 --> 01:13:43,500 this is probably not a lot longer than 1970 01:13:47,390 --> 01:13:45,719 five or six years ago seven years ago 1971 01:13:50,810 --> 01:13:47,400 and it was the only other appearance and 1972 01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:50,820 he came in and looking at each other and 1973 01:13:54,830 --> 01:13:52,320 make a long story short it just 1974 01:13:56,810 --> 01:13:54,840 disappears I'm wide awake uh you know 1975 01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:56,820 not the least bit afraid 1976 01:14:00,350 --> 01:13:59,040 and my response wasn't wake up my wife 1977 01:14:02,330 --> 01:14:00,360 you wouldn't believe what the hell just 1978 01:14:06,590 --> 01:14:02,340 came into the bedroom again 1979 01:14:08,450 --> 01:14:06,600 it was yeah you know what the bad what 1980 01:14:09,110 --> 01:14:08,460 the covers up next morning got up you 1981 01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:09,120 know 1982 01:14:12,530 --> 01:14:10,560 um and it was a messenger and I found 1983 01:14:14,570 --> 01:14:12,540 out my friend died and it's probably 1984 01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:14,580 that's what it was about I'm sure but I 1985 01:14:17,570 --> 01:14:15,600 remember 1986 01:14:20,209 --> 01:14:17,580 thinking I better call up so-and-so you 1987 01:14:22,430 --> 01:14:20,219 know the head of this uh he was ahead of 1988 01:14:24,050 --> 01:14:22,440 this um he was a doctor ahead of head of 1989 01:14:26,450 --> 01:14:24,060 this program that my wife and I were 1990 01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:26,460 involved in and still are about people 1991 01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:28,920 that have had these experiences 1992 01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:31,199 and uh and he said well you know you 1993 01:14:34,610 --> 01:14:33,360 should try to re-contact it was clearly 1994 01:14:36,590 --> 01:14:34,620 a contact 1995 01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:36,600 you should go back in contact and I said 1996 01:14:39,709 --> 01:14:38,400 I'm not contacting that and I want to 1997 01:14:41,209 --> 01:14:39,719 contact that I want anything to do with 1998 01:14:42,350 --> 01:14:41,219 that damn thing you know I don't know 1999 01:14:44,330 --> 01:14:42,360 what the hell it was I don't want it in 2000 01:14:46,850 --> 01:14:44,340 my life I didn't want to open up any 2001 01:14:48,050 --> 01:14:46,860 kind of pathway with that and I know a 2002 01:14:49,669 --> 01:14:48,060 lot of people tell me ah you know you 2003 01:14:51,169 --> 01:14:49,679 know you know this was these are 2004 01:14:52,729 --> 01:14:51,179 invitations you should be taking these 2005 01:14:54,649 --> 01:14:52,739 and I'm saying well easy for you to say 2006 01:14:56,270 --> 01:14:54,659 if I knew what the hell it was if it 2007 01:14:58,430 --> 01:14:56,280 introduced itself and say hey how are 2008 01:15:00,290 --> 01:14:58,440 you my name is you know I still would be 2009 01:15:02,390 --> 01:15:00,300 skeptical highly skeptical 2010 01:15:04,130 --> 01:15:02,400 but nevertheless it doesn't give you 2011 01:15:07,070 --> 01:15:04,140 that opportunity does it it it it it 2012 01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:07,080 just walls itself off and most 2013 01:15:11,390 --> 01:15:09,120 experiences are like that it doesn't 2014 01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:11,400 allow this this back and forth you know 2015 01:15:14,870 --> 01:15:12,840 they said well they'll come back in 2016 01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:14,880 three years it'll pick you up and you 2017 01:15:19,550 --> 01:15:17,760 have these those are contact experiences 2018 01:15:22,370 --> 01:15:19,560 but can you actually trust those 2019 01:15:25,130 --> 01:15:22,380 experiences that they are actually what 2020 01:15:26,630 --> 01:15:25,140 they are I'd be very doubtful that that 2021 01:15:28,010 --> 01:15:26,640 I in other words I wouldn't bet a 2022 01:15:29,689 --> 01:15:28,020 paycheck on it 2023 01:15:31,490 --> 01:15:29,699 just before even though it seems you 2024 01:15:33,169 --> 01:15:31,500 know very real yeah so thanks for 2025 01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:33,179 sharing those stories as well and that 2026 01:15:37,130 --> 01:15:35,040 last one you told a little more expanded 2027 01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:37,140 on the UAP studies podcast I recommend 2028 01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:38,520 people check that one out I think you 2029 01:15:42,649 --> 01:15:41,040 were on just a week or two ago on that 2030 01:15:43,970 --> 01:15:42,659 that one so people should check out as 2031 01:15:46,189 --> 01:15:43,980 well because I think it's a very 2032 01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:46,199 different to what we've discussed on 2033 01:15:49,850 --> 01:15:48,480 here and it'll complement it very well 2034 01:15:51,350 --> 01:15:49,860 um before we get to listen our questions 2035 01:15:53,689 --> 01:15:51,360 Jim you've been building with your time 2036 01:15:55,310 --> 01:15:53,699 I want to ask you one more thing on the 2037 01:15:57,830 --> 01:15:55,320 legislation moving through Congress 2038 01:15:59,810 --> 01:15:57,840 shows that a unanimous bipartisan 2039 01:16:01,450 --> 01:15:59,820 support in a way that is very rare 2040 01:16:03,890 --> 01:16:01,460 especially in the U.S political system 2041 01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:03,900 and this legislation it strongly 2042 01:16:08,330 --> 01:16:06,000 suggested that Congress isn't interested 2043 01:16:10,189 --> 01:16:08,340 in anything man-made and that some 2044 01:16:12,410 --> 01:16:10,199 whistleblowers are hopefully ready to 2045 01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:12,420 come forward how involved are you into 2046 01:16:16,610 --> 01:16:14,640 the stars with this side of things and 2047 01:16:19,790 --> 01:16:16,620 have you heard any testimony from 2048 01:16:23,930 --> 01:16:21,890 um I I'm in touch with 2049 01:16:25,850 --> 01:16:23,940 um people involved 2050 01:16:27,050 --> 01:16:25,860 in the task force 2051 01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:27,060 and 2052 01:16:35,149 --> 01:16:32,760 you know it's just like they call up ask 2053 01:16:37,010 --> 01:16:35,159 me questions things along those lines 2054 01:16:40,189 --> 01:16:37,020 um but it's moving forward 2055 01:16:42,410 --> 01:16:40,199 um uh the uh um 2056 01:16:44,510 --> 01:16:42,420 the big story really is here and this is 2057 01:16:48,830 --> 01:16:44,520 through the efforts and I you know of 2058 01:16:51,530 --> 01:16:48,840 mostly Chris melon and and Lou Elizondo 2059 01:16:54,050 --> 01:16:51,540 I think they've done us really a 2060 01:16:57,410 --> 01:16:54,060 spectacular job of getting to the right 2061 01:16:58,970 --> 01:16:57,420 people in Congress into the and 2062 01:17:00,649 --> 01:16:58,980 hipsy you know Senate select committee 2063 01:17:02,030 --> 01:17:00,659 on intelligence and house permanent 2064 01:17:04,669 --> 01:17:02,040 select committee on intelligence the 2065 01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:04,679 armed services committee 2066 01:17:09,410 --> 01:17:07,679 um and other committees and basically uh 2067 01:17:10,669 --> 01:17:09,420 um you know 2068 01:17:13,010 --> 01:17:10,679 um 2069 01:17:14,750 --> 01:17:13,020 you know where their Primary 2070 01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:14,760 interlocutors getting the Navy to come 2071 01:17:18,830 --> 01:17:17,040 in and and and and to brief them on this 2072 01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:18,840 one small aspect 2073 01:17:23,149 --> 01:17:21,120 of of what was happening and I think 2074 01:17:25,790 --> 01:17:23,159 when the congressmen and senators were 2075 01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:25,800 shown the data 2076 01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:29,940 um and shown a much more extensive uh of 2077 01:17:35,209 --> 01:17:33,120 video uh videos and um other data I 2078 01:17:38,689 --> 01:17:35,219 think they were sort of taken aback 2079 01:17:41,649 --> 01:17:38,699 this whole nonsense of 2080 01:17:44,209 --> 01:17:41,659 that's out there that oh it's you know 2081 01:17:47,169 --> 01:17:44,219 Chinese or it's Russian I mean I've said 2082 01:17:50,810 --> 01:17:47,179 this before countless times no it's not 2083 01:17:52,490 --> 01:17:50,820 it absolutely is not and everybody knows 2084 01:17:55,550 --> 01:17:52,500 it's not everybody knows we have an 2085 01:17:58,610 --> 01:17:55,560 issue here and the issue is we don't 2086 01:18:01,130 --> 01:17:58,620 know what's in our airspace 2087 01:18:02,930 --> 01:18:01,140 um and uh and we need to find out what 2088 01:18:05,810 --> 01:18:02,940 that is 2089 01:18:07,729 --> 01:18:05,820 um and um and I know uh senators and 2090 01:18:09,169 --> 01:18:07,739 congressmen will use a well that you 2091 01:18:11,570 --> 01:18:09,179 know if it is a you know foreign 2092 01:18:13,610 --> 01:18:11,580 adversary it really it's not a foreign 2093 01:18:15,229 --> 01:18:13,620 adversary if it was a four if it was a 2094 01:18:16,729 --> 01:18:15,239 foreign adversary trust me you know 2095 01:18:19,669 --> 01:18:16,739 Russia would be running the world as 2096 01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:19,679 with China uh uh with this technology no 2097 01:18:23,149 --> 01:18:21,120 because there's more I mean it's it's 2098 01:18:24,530 --> 01:18:23,159 not just having that technology you know 2099 01:18:26,630 --> 01:18:24,540 if um 2100 01:18:28,669 --> 01:18:26,640 think about it I mean it's it's you know 2101 01:18:30,649 --> 01:18:28,679 where you create quote unquote drones or 2102 01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:30,659 spacecraft there is so much more 2103 01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:32,159 involved in that technology you'd be 2104 01:18:36,530 --> 01:18:33,900 able to develop so many other types of 2105 01:18:39,290 --> 01:18:36,540 weapon systems and or other you know 2106 01:18:40,910 --> 01:18:39,300 technological advances that that we 2107 01:18:44,570 --> 01:18:40,920 would know this 2108 01:18:46,149 --> 01:18:44,580 when I was in the agency right high 2109 01:18:48,590 --> 01:18:46,159 technology from foreign foreign 2110 01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:48,600 governments were developing 2111 01:18:53,390 --> 01:18:51,600 so no you know it it it's not that and 2112 01:18:55,250 --> 01:18:53,400 what you have is you know and I said 2113 01:18:57,169 --> 01:18:55,260 this before the cat is is actually out 2114 01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:57,179 of the bag and that was basically what 2115 01:19:01,669 --> 01:18:59,520 all we wanted to do all ttsa wanted to 2116 01:19:03,169 --> 01:19:01,679 do when we first performed get the cat 2117 01:19:04,610 --> 01:19:03,179 out of the bag get it in front of the 2118 01:19:06,530 --> 01:19:04,620 people that that you know about it now 2119 01:19:08,510 --> 01:19:06,540 it's up to the government to figure out 2120 01:19:10,970 --> 01:19:08,520 what they're going to do now the problem 2121 01:19:12,890 --> 01:19:10,980 with all this is is the government now 2122 01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:12,900 has this big hot potato in their hand 2123 01:19:16,310 --> 01:19:14,760 the hell are they supposed to do they're 2124 01:19:17,510 --> 01:19:16,320 so they're going to get 20 scientists 2125 01:19:19,729 --> 01:19:17,520 and a bunch of other people and they're 2126 01:19:21,110 --> 01:19:19,739 going to throw some money at it and what 2127 01:19:22,790 --> 01:19:21,120 do you think is going to happen 2128 01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:22,800 the same thing 2129 01:19:26,950 --> 01:19:24,960 that's been going on for the last 50 or 2130 01:19:29,270 --> 01:19:26,960 60 or 70 years 2131 01:19:31,430 --> 01:19:29,280 there's no there there I mean where the 2132 01:19:33,530 --> 01:19:31,440 hell are you start looking at this 2133 01:19:36,649 --> 01:19:33,540 um you know the you can't just get a 2134 01:19:38,990 --> 01:19:36,659 bunch of uh you know physicists together 2135 01:19:40,910 --> 01:19:39,000 and try to solve this issue it's much 2136 01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:40,920 much more complicated and I think 2137 01:19:44,450 --> 01:19:42,960 they're finding that out now I had a 2138 01:19:46,910 --> 01:19:44,460 very long conversation with somebody on 2139 01:19:49,610 --> 01:19:46,920 the task force essentially about this 2140 01:19:51,470 --> 01:19:49,620 that you can't just take a scientific 2141 01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:51,480 nuts and bolts view of this it's much 2142 01:19:56,689 --> 01:19:54,000 much more complicated ASAP has shown 2143 01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:56,699 that to be the case uh you know Bigelow 2144 01:20:00,950 --> 01:19:59,040 did a Bigelow's team you know calm and 2145 01:20:02,930 --> 01:20:00,960 everybody George and they did a 2146 01:20:04,910 --> 01:20:02,940 wonderful job putting this together Jim 2147 01:20:05,950 --> 01:20:04,920 McCaskey should get a medal for what he 2148 01:20:08,209 --> 01:20:05,960 did 2149 01:20:11,090 --> 01:20:08,219 regarding regarding this 2150 01:20:14,270 --> 01:20:11,100 so it's going to be a very tough road uh 2151 01:20:15,709 --> 01:20:14,280 Road row to hope uh for the any UAP task 2152 01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:15,719 force I think they're going to get 2153 01:20:18,050 --> 01:20:16,800 they're going to they're going to do 2154 01:20:19,970 --> 01:20:18,060 this though because a lot of people are 2155 01:20:21,290 --> 01:20:19,980 interested in this and I think you're 2156 01:20:23,209 --> 01:20:21,300 going to find a lot more governmental 2157 01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:23,219 organizations uh involved in this 2158 01:20:27,770 --> 01:20:25,440 because now there's money that's going 2159 01:20:30,050 --> 01:20:27,780 to be allocated uh to this and I think a 2160 01:20:31,850 --> 01:20:30,060 lot of people will be stepping up uh now 2161 01:20:34,130 --> 01:20:31,860 what we end up 2162 01:20:39,410 --> 01:20:34,140 knowing about all this 2163 01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:39,420 my my hope is that at the very least we 2164 01:20:43,070 --> 01:20:40,560 start getting 2165 01:20:45,290 --> 01:20:43,080 pictures 2166 01:20:47,390 --> 01:20:45,300 videos 2167 01:20:48,830 --> 01:20:47,400 out to the public showing them that yes 2168 01:20:50,590 --> 01:20:48,840 this is real 2169 01:20:53,209 --> 01:20:50,600 that's the first step 2170 01:20:54,350 --> 01:20:53,219 and then after that you know the 2171 01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:54,360 government will have to choose how much 2172 01:20:57,950 --> 01:20:55,920 they can release or not 2173 01:21:01,550 --> 01:20:57,960 I think I'm just hoping that that but 2174 01:21:03,950 --> 01:21:01,560 but but but let me let me add I 2175 01:21:05,930 --> 01:21:03,960 I I don't I 2176 01:21:07,610 --> 01:21:05,940 I I'm not saying when that the 2177 01:21:09,950 --> 01:21:07,620 government is actually going to do all 2178 01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:09,960 this I mean I hope it does but that's 2179 01:21:15,350 --> 01:21:11,760 why I think there is a desperate need 2180 01:21:18,290 --> 01:21:15,360 for a a private organization 2181 01:21:21,530 --> 01:21:18,300 with sufficient funds and a great 2182 01:21:23,870 --> 01:21:21,540 organizational structure and no need to 2183 01:21:25,310 --> 01:21:23,880 do the quarterly you know this is what 2184 01:21:27,649 --> 01:21:25,320 we this is what we did with your money 2185 01:21:28,910 --> 01:21:27,659 you know here's what we discovered you 2186 01:21:31,130 --> 01:21:28,920 know because that's how the government 2187 01:21:32,450 --> 01:21:31,140 works you you either have progress or 2188 01:21:34,189 --> 01:21:32,460 you don't get the money 2189 01:21:35,630 --> 01:21:34,199 so we need something a little bit 2190 01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:35,640 different uh 2191 01:21:37,490 --> 01:21:36,719 a structure that's a little bit 2192 01:21:40,010 --> 01:21:37,500 different 2193 01:21:41,390 --> 01:21:40,020 I see I'm sorry no no that that sounds 2194 01:21:43,790 --> 01:21:41,400 amazing and I'm just going to add I 2195 01:21:45,890 --> 01:21:43,800 think if we can get that that real 2196 01:21:47,450 --> 01:21:45,900 quality picture ideally that real 2197 01:21:49,310 --> 01:21:47,460 quality video you know we heard about 2198 01:21:51,890 --> 01:21:49,320 the mythical black triangle coming out 2199 01:21:53,870 --> 01:21:51,900 of the water or you know the additional 2200 01:21:55,729 --> 01:21:53,880 parts of the gimbal video the Tic Tac 2201 01:21:58,370 --> 01:21:55,739 videos that are are chopped off either 2202 01:22:00,050 --> 01:21:58,380 end potentially if we could get that on 2203 01:22:01,850 --> 01:22:00,060 the nine o'clock news throughout the 2204 01:22:04,130 --> 01:22:01,860 world to say look this is this is real 2205 01:22:06,410 --> 01:22:04,140 and here's a really good video that you 2206 01:22:08,270 --> 01:22:06,420 can't deny is something truly 2207 01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:08,280 extraordinary I think getting that 2208 01:22:12,410 --> 01:22:10,080 public backing would be huge for the 2209 01:22:14,090 --> 01:22:12,420 subject and really help right now it 2210 01:22:16,490 --> 01:22:14,100 seems like it's a very small corner of 2211 01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:16,500 the world in in the UFO Community really 2212 01:22:20,689 --> 01:22:17,760 fighting to try and keep this 2213 01:22:22,310 --> 01:22:20,699 conversation going and at times it we 2214 01:22:23,810 --> 01:22:22,320 open the door a little bit and you hear 2215 01:22:26,090 --> 01:22:23,820 it's on the news and it has its little 2216 01:22:28,430 --> 01:22:26,100 cycle and 60 Minutes get involved and 2217 01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:28,440 HBO create a three-part four-part series 2218 01:22:33,229 --> 01:22:30,900 and then then it goes away and it's just 2219 01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:33,239 trying to get it back up that momentum 2220 01:22:37,610 --> 01:22:36,000 you're absolutely right and you know I 2221 01:22:39,350 --> 01:22:37,620 always tell people I generally tend to 2222 01:22:41,330 --> 01:22:39,360 be an optimist 2223 01:22:42,770 --> 01:22:41,340 um eventually eventually we will get 2224 01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:42,780 those pictures we will get those videos 2225 01:22:48,229 --> 01:22:45,120 hey I mean we're bound to get them 2226 01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:48,239 um um I I don't think it's um um you 2227 01:22:52,910 --> 01:22:51,360 know a coincidental that and the last 15 2228 01:22:54,350 --> 01:22:52,920 to 20 years we're seeing more and more 2229 01:22:56,990 --> 01:22:54,360 and more of this coming out and I think 2230 01:22:59,090 --> 01:22:57,000 people like you and other podcasters are 2231 01:23:00,530 --> 01:22:59,100 really uh doing a great work and you 2232 01:23:02,390 --> 01:23:00,540 know bringing this out and keeping this 2233 01:23:03,770 --> 01:23:02,400 out in front of the public 2234 01:23:05,149 --> 01:23:03,780 um and I think that's extraordinarily 2235 01:23:08,510 --> 01:23:05,159 helpful 2236 01:23:10,850 --> 01:23:08,520 um uh but the evidence and you're trying 2237 01:23:13,310 --> 01:23:10,860 to tell people this the evidence is so 2238 01:23:15,890 --> 01:23:13,320 overwhelming 2239 01:23:17,090 --> 01:23:15,900 um so many people have seen this you 2240 01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,100 know and you know I don't believe in 2241 01:23:21,110 --> 01:23:19,440 credibility I think you know a housewife 2242 01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:21,120 and you know in Kentucky is just as 2243 01:23:25,610 --> 01:23:24,000 credible to me uh you know as a uh 2244 01:23:27,709 --> 01:23:25,620 scientist you know and I mean you know 2245 01:23:29,450 --> 01:23:27,719 working for DOD I mean somebody sees 2246 01:23:30,890 --> 01:23:29,460 this they're honest good people they see 2247 01:23:32,209 --> 01:23:30,900 it they see it we should take them at 2248 01:23:34,490 --> 01:23:32,219 face value 2249 01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:34,500 um and we should look into it I mean uh 2250 01:23:39,470 --> 01:23:36,960 Jacques idea of you know his wonderful 2251 01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:39,480 book Trinity that just came out is a 2252 01:23:43,729 --> 01:23:42,000 perfect example of what should be done 2253 01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:43,739 um and these these you know on-site 2254 01:23:48,530 --> 01:23:46,080 studies 2255 01:23:50,330 --> 01:23:48,540 um are really needed because you know 2256 01:23:52,850 --> 01:23:50,340 the only people that deal in anecdotes 2257 01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:52,860 you know are are are are really you know 2258 01:23:58,430 --> 01:23:56,400 detectives you know and and um and maybe 2259 01:23:59,990 --> 01:23:58,440 you know uh uh anthropologists and 2260 01:24:01,250 --> 01:24:00,000 whatever they look at things they see 2261 01:24:02,990 --> 01:24:01,260 things but they have to put it all 2262 01:24:06,290 --> 01:24:03,000 together so they go out in the field 2263 01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:06,300 nothing's repeatable uh you know so they 2264 01:24:09,470 --> 01:24:08,400 don't have the their scientific Paradigm 2265 01:24:11,390 --> 01:24:09,480 is a little bit different it's a little 2266 01:24:13,370 --> 01:24:11,400 more open and they're able to look at 2267 01:24:15,290 --> 01:24:13,380 things and observe things and then then 2268 01:24:17,630 --> 01:24:15,300 make these conclusions scientific 2269 01:24:20,630 --> 01:24:17,640 conclusions this is probably what this 2270 01:24:23,390 --> 01:24:20,640 is we have to really focus on that and 2271 01:24:25,970 --> 01:24:23,400 um and uh we don't have anything 2272 01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:25,980 I mean we have Jacques and Paula Harris 2273 01:24:29,570 --> 01:24:27,360 you know we're two people that went out 2274 01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:29,580 there and did that you know and and 2275 01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:31,199 we need a hell of a lot more than that a 2276 01:24:35,149 --> 01:24:33,360 hell of a lot more money behind them so 2277 01:24:37,010 --> 01:24:35,159 Jim let's see if we can get through some 2278 01:24:38,450 --> 01:24:37,020 of these listener questions for you and 2279 01:24:40,250 --> 01:24:38,460 thank you to everyone who sent them and 2280 01:24:42,350 --> 01:24:40,260 uh hopefully I've got through some just 2281 01:24:45,050 --> 01:24:42,360 in the body of the interview and and 2282 01:24:47,810 --> 01:24:45,060 Jim's fantastic answers as well and the 2283 01:24:49,010 --> 01:24:47,820 first one is from Louie G Luigi asks do 2284 01:24:50,870 --> 01:24:49,020 you believe there's a unified 2285 01:24:53,689 --> 01:24:50,880 explanation for all the different 2286 01:24:55,310 --> 01:24:53,699 phenomena if so how do you reconcile the 2287 01:24:57,189 --> 01:24:55,320 tricks does with the more benevolent 2288 01:24:59,570 --> 01:24:57,199 encounters 2289 01:25:01,490 --> 01:24:59,580 uh what was it the last part of that how 2290 01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,500 do I reconcile the the track star 2291 01:25:05,689 --> 01:25:03,360 element of the Phenomenon with the more 2292 01:25:08,630 --> 01:25:05,699 benevolent encounters 2293 01:25:10,669 --> 01:25:08,640 yeah uh that's a great question uh um 2294 01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:10,679 you know John Alexander pointed this out 2295 01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:13,440 uh at a uh at a conference and he he 2296 01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:15,420 came over to visit me and he showed me 2297 01:25:19,790 --> 01:25:17,820 his uh his slides and one of the very 2298 01:25:21,709 --> 01:25:19,800 last slides was he had all these 2299 01:25:23,930 --> 01:25:21,719 different elements of the phenomena you 2300 01:25:26,930 --> 01:25:23,940 know sort of all in a circle you know 2301 01:25:28,970 --> 01:25:26,940 and um you know they want to see um 2302 01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:28,980 ETS and you know and there was you know 2303 01:25:32,930 --> 01:25:30,719 the nuts and bolts side of it and then 2304 01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:32,940 there was you know precognition and 2305 01:25:36,530 --> 01:25:34,560 there was all these Psy elements and 2306 01:25:38,689 --> 01:25:36,540 there's 26 different Psy elements right 2307 01:25:41,209 --> 01:25:38,699 psychokinesis Clairvoyance remote 2308 01:25:44,030 --> 01:25:41,219 viewing blah blah blah they I do believe 2309 01:25:46,669 --> 01:25:44,040 they all are connected 2310 01:25:48,590 --> 01:25:46,679 I I sort of feel that I mean I I think 2311 01:25:52,250 --> 01:25:48,600 they are certainly all connected they're 2312 01:25:54,649 --> 01:25:52,260 all part of our natural universe that we 2313 01:25:56,209 --> 01:25:54,659 we some people experience I remember how 2314 01:25:57,709 --> 01:25:56,219 put off telling me yeah everybody can 2315 01:25:59,750 --> 01:25:57,719 remove you but not everybody can remote 2316 01:26:01,430 --> 01:25:59,760 view well it's like all every you know 2317 01:26:02,990 --> 01:26:01,440 yeah some people are good at telepathy 2318 01:26:04,250 --> 01:26:03,000 but not all people and some people are 2319 01:26:06,350 --> 01:26:04,260 really good at it and some people are 2320 01:26:08,030 --> 01:26:06,360 just sort of mildly good at it so I 2321 01:26:11,450 --> 01:26:08,040 think these things all exist I mean in 2322 01:26:12,890 --> 01:26:11,460 1862 the British cyclical Association I 2323 01:26:14,649 --> 01:26:12,900 think proved without a doubt that all 2324 01:26:17,510 --> 01:26:14,659 these things exist right you know the 2325 01:26:19,070 --> 01:26:17,520 telekinesis exists levitation exists 2326 01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:19,080 these are all the scientists or the best 2327 01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:21,120 scientists of the day they prove that 2328 01:26:24,770 --> 01:26:22,800 they have that's that's all you know 2329 01:26:26,689 --> 01:26:24,780 that's all there I mean the Russians 2330 01:26:28,729 --> 01:26:26,699 approved it the U.S has looked at it and 2331 01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,739 say yes it says we can't control it we 2332 01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:30,480 don't know how it works the problem 2333 01:26:33,890 --> 01:26:32,159 isn't the evidence the problem is a 2334 01:26:36,110 --> 01:26:33,900 theory to explain the evidence right 2335 01:26:38,629 --> 01:26:36,120 that's what we're missing in all this 2336 01:26:41,090 --> 01:26:38,639 now when you get to the 2337 01:26:43,490 --> 01:26:41,100 so yes I believe there is is something 2338 01:26:45,290 --> 01:26:43,500 going on there what I haven't figured 2339 01:26:48,110 --> 01:26:45,300 out and I it's one of my biggest 2340 01:26:51,669 --> 01:26:48,120 problems is ndes near-death experiences 2341 01:26:54,470 --> 01:26:51,679 and this whole idea of life after death 2342 01:26:56,810 --> 01:26:54,480 you know is that somehow connected to 2343 01:26:58,310 --> 01:26:56,820 this also you know is that so that's 2344 01:27:00,470 --> 01:26:58,320 where we get into the framework of 2345 01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:00,480 quantum mechanics and Consciousness once 2346 01:27:06,649 --> 01:27:03,120 again right how does this all fit in do 2347 01:27:10,250 --> 01:27:06,659 we ever die am I looking at Andy here as 2348 01:27:12,350 --> 01:27:10,260 a Andy uh this is congealed Mass uh that 2349 01:27:14,270 --> 01:27:12,360 looks like you do right or am I talking 2350 01:27:15,830 --> 01:27:14,280 to an energy pattern right are we all 2351 01:27:18,530 --> 01:27:15,840 energy pattern just my computer and 2352 01:27:20,030 --> 01:27:18,540 energy pattern you know as are we just 2353 01:27:22,070 --> 01:27:20,040 you know sort of communicating like that 2354 01:27:25,490 --> 01:27:22,080 because generally that's what you are 2355 01:27:26,930 --> 01:27:25,500 right and if uh you were to pass away or 2356 01:27:29,330 --> 01:27:26,940 I were to pass away I mean does that 2357 01:27:32,030 --> 01:27:29,340 energy go someplace else I believe it 2358 01:27:33,649 --> 01:27:32,040 does uh energy can either be created nor 2359 01:27:35,570 --> 01:27:33,659 destroyed according to Einstein so I 2360 01:27:37,910 --> 01:27:35,580 believe it goes to someplace else the 2361 01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:37,920 trickster element 2362 01:27:41,930 --> 01:27:39,960 that's probably the hardest element to 2363 01:27:43,729 --> 01:27:41,940 figure out because I don't know why it's 2364 01:27:44,990 --> 01:27:43,739 there 2365 01:27:46,430 --> 01:27:45,000 um you know 2366 01:27:48,370 --> 01:27:46,440 um when 2367 01:27:52,430 --> 01:27:48,380 when a group of 2368 01:27:55,430 --> 01:27:52,440 aliens comes down to you and tells you 2369 01:27:56,810 --> 01:27:55,440 we're going to land on the White House 2370 01:27:58,729 --> 01:27:56,820 lawn 2371 01:28:02,330 --> 01:27:58,739 on April 15th 2372 01:28:04,970 --> 01:28:02,340 you know 2023 and you experience them 2373 01:28:07,129 --> 01:28:04,980 they're in your room you can see them 2374 01:28:09,830 --> 01:28:07,139 they touch you you can feel the touch 2375 01:28:12,530 --> 01:28:09,840 there is real to you as you are to me 2376 01:28:13,850 --> 01:28:12,540 and me or to you and they tell you this 2377 01:28:14,810 --> 01:28:13,860 and then what are you supposed to do 2378 01:28:16,729 --> 01:28:14,820 with that 2379 01:28:17,990 --> 01:28:16,739 it's real and I've had this happen 2380 01:28:19,610 --> 01:28:18,000 friends of mine come to me and said hey 2381 01:28:22,430 --> 01:28:19,620 you know they told me they're and I said 2382 01:28:24,470 --> 01:28:22,440 no you know it's it's you know take a 2383 01:28:25,850 --> 01:28:24,480 take a message from the Oxford book of 2384 01:28:27,729 --> 01:28:25,860 millennialism which I have up here 2385 01:28:30,290 --> 01:28:27,739 somewhere I mean countless number of 2386 01:28:31,790 --> 01:28:30,300 instances where it usually happens in a 2387 01:28:32,930 --> 01:28:31,800 religious context right when somebody's 2388 01:28:35,750 --> 01:28:32,940 ah the end of the world is going to be 2389 01:28:37,250 --> 01:28:35,760 on such and such it never happens and 2390 01:28:39,169 --> 01:28:37,260 this is what the trickster elements this 2391 01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:39,179 is what's so bad about this because you 2392 01:28:43,189 --> 01:28:41,699 take a really bright intelligent person 2393 01:28:46,490 --> 01:28:43,199 and you make them look like an idiot 2394 01:28:49,729 --> 01:28:46,500 right so how do you how do you counter 2395 01:28:51,530 --> 01:28:49,739 that you you basically say no I'm not 2396 01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:51,540 going to tell anybody thanks for the 2397 01:28:55,490 --> 01:28:53,520 information but that's probably not real 2398 01:28:56,930 --> 01:28:55,500 you sort of have to stand up to that you 2399 01:28:58,790 --> 01:28:56,940 have to have a conversation and quit 2400 01:29:01,490 --> 01:28:58,800 looking at the phenomenon in some kind 2401 01:29:03,830 --> 01:29:01,500 of awe and looking at it in a way that 2402 01:29:06,649 --> 01:29:03,840 you know you know are you trying to mess 2403 01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:06,659 up my life why are you doing this we 2404 01:29:10,250 --> 01:29:08,400 have to ask those questions if it's even 2405 01:29:12,530 --> 01:29:10,260 possible to ask those questions 2406 01:29:14,330 --> 01:29:12,540 but we have to sort of go back at it you 2407 01:29:15,410 --> 01:29:14,340 know when I call them earlier I 2408 01:29:16,430 --> 01:29:15,420 hope they don't come visit me tonight 2409 01:29:18,830 --> 01:29:16,440 and say what the hell are you talking 2410 01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:18,840 about you know you know but but at the 2411 01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:20,400 same time you know they're not playing 2412 01:29:23,629 --> 01:29:22,320 they're not playing with us fairly you 2413 01:29:25,370 --> 01:29:23,639 know it's not a it's not an equal 2414 01:29:27,830 --> 01:29:25,380 playing field and we have to be very 2415 01:29:29,930 --> 01:29:27,840 very careful with that the gem you made 2416 01:29:32,510 --> 01:29:29,940 regret uh throwing out the date of April 2417 01:29:34,370 --> 01:29:32,520 15 2023 because that will go all over 2418 01:29:38,030 --> 01:29:34,380 the internet now as a date where the 2419 01:29:40,610 --> 01:29:38,040 aliens are going down yeah absolutely 2420 01:29:42,649 --> 01:29:40,620 I promise you I just made that you know 2421 01:29:44,510 --> 01:29:42,659 I I I let's let me add one more thing 2422 01:29:46,610 --> 01:29:44,520 here yeah yeah uh this is the last 2423 01:29:48,950 --> 01:29:46,620 podcast I'm going to be doing 2424 01:29:51,290 --> 01:29:48,960 probably 2425 01:29:52,729 --> 01:29:51,300 until next year and maybe not ever again 2426 01:29:55,030 --> 01:29:52,739 and and 2427 01:29:57,229 --> 01:29:55,040 um and the reason why 2428 01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:57,239 people have talked to me and said please 2429 01:30:01,070 --> 01:29:59,280 don't do that you know just just but go 2430 01:30:03,410 --> 01:30:01,080 on but I find that I find I'm repeating 2431 01:30:05,450 --> 01:30:03,420 myself I I find that the podcast I've 2432 01:30:06,830 --> 01:30:05,460 been on you know there isn't much I can 2433 01:30:09,169 --> 01:30:06,840 add 2434 01:30:11,090 --> 01:30:09,179 um you know I I that's like this 2435 01:30:13,490 --> 01:30:11,100 throwing out stuff and it's not being 2436 01:30:16,010 --> 01:30:13,500 helpful to anybody uh because I can't 2437 01:30:19,370 --> 01:30:16,020 give them any any answers and I feel bad 2438 01:30:20,149 --> 01:30:19,380 about that I feel I feel in a way you 2439 01:30:22,250 --> 01:30:20,159 know 2440 01:30:23,990 --> 01:30:22,260 um we're letting people down I I just 2441 01:30:26,510 --> 01:30:24,000 feel we want to I want to make some 2442 01:30:28,430 --> 01:30:26,520 Headway first you know where we can 2443 01:30:31,729 --> 01:30:28,440 actually point to something 2444 01:30:34,070 --> 01:30:31,739 so maybe maybe I'll do these more when 2445 01:30:35,990 --> 01:30:34,080 more more information comes out you know 2446 01:30:38,450 --> 01:30:36,000 or I come up with something that I think 2447 01:30:40,250 --> 01:30:38,460 is is interesting but 2448 01:30:42,169 --> 01:30:40,260 um I Heard great great things about you 2449 01:30:44,330 --> 01:30:42,179 and that's why I you know figured I'd 2450 01:30:45,950 --> 01:30:44,340 end it with you but no thanks and 2451 01:30:47,689 --> 01:30:45,960 honestly I think people do appreciate 2452 01:30:50,270 --> 01:30:47,699 just hating people like yourself come 2453 01:30:52,250 --> 01:30:50,280 out and have those conversations and my 2454 01:30:54,350 --> 01:30:52,260 audience is different to the UAP studies 2455 01:30:55,729 --> 01:30:54,360 podcast audience at large and others 2456 01:30:57,530 --> 01:30:55,739 that you've been on as well calling all 2457 01:31:00,229 --> 01:30:57,540 beings I know you're on with DJ and Co 2458 01:31:02,149 --> 01:31:00,239 so those conversations are appreciated 2459 01:31:04,370 --> 01:31:02,159 because there was a time when people 2460 01:31:06,110 --> 01:31:04,380 like yourself were just names on Bits of 2461 01:31:08,330 --> 01:31:06,120 Paper and talked about as a talking head 2462 01:31:10,129 --> 01:31:08,340 on a documentary so it's nice that you 2463 01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:10,139 do this and hopefully you do come back 2464 01:31:13,610 --> 01:31:11,760 on various pods but let's make the most 2465 01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:13,620 of it just in case it is then with some 2466 01:31:17,629 --> 01:31:15,120 more listener questions a really good 2467 01:31:20,030 --> 01:31:17,639 one from Dave do you think the cognitive 2468 01:31:22,669 --> 01:31:20,040 and space-time manipulation abilities of 2469 01:31:24,830 --> 01:31:22,679 the phenomenon are technological or a 2470 01:31:28,790 --> 01:31:24,840 natural ability 2471 01:31:31,729 --> 01:31:28,800 wow that's a great question uh both 2472 01:31:34,790 --> 01:31:31,739 um I remember talking to Hal about this 2473 01:31:37,129 --> 01:31:34,800 um you know um uh Hal is very much into 2474 01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:37,139 altering the space-time you know metric 2475 01:31:42,709 --> 01:31:39,719 and and um we have we actually had one 2476 01:31:46,070 --> 01:31:42,719 of our projects actually uh with TTS 2477 01:31:48,350 --> 01:31:46,080 um is is um is concerning the space-time 2478 01:31:52,129 --> 01:31:48,360 metric and what you can do and can't do 2479 01:31:54,649 --> 01:31:52,139 the problem with this is is and as Hal 2480 01:31:57,290 --> 01:31:54,659 pointed out you get into attended 2481 01:32:00,530 --> 01:31:57,300 problems uh when you start talking about 2482 01:32:02,450 --> 01:32:00,540 that with with time space uh and and you 2483 01:32:10,189 --> 01:32:02,460 get into intentionality 2484 01:32:14,629 --> 01:32:13,129 well I let me put it this way there's a 2485 01:32:18,229 --> 01:32:14,639 wonderful philosopher who was a 2486 01:32:21,110 --> 01:32:18,239 religious philosopher who was very big 2487 01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:21,120 during the 60s and 70s Alan Watts I 2488 01:32:23,930 --> 01:32:22,080 don't know if you ever heard of Alan 2489 01:32:25,310 --> 01:32:23,940 Watts but uh you know Wonderful every 2490 01:32:28,129 --> 01:32:25,320 every once in a while if I want to tune 2491 01:32:30,530 --> 01:32:28,139 up I'll listen to Alan Allen's uh talks 2492 01:32:34,070 --> 01:32:30,540 uh on on this whole concept of of 2493 01:32:38,209 --> 01:32:34,080 religion and who we are as human beings 2494 01:32:40,669 --> 01:32:38,219 um uh you know there's 2495 01:32:42,470 --> 01:32:40,679 um I guess what I'm trying to say is is 2496 01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:42,480 you know you could talk about and I'm 2497 01:32:45,229 --> 01:32:43,920 not a physicist so I can't really get 2498 01:32:46,970 --> 01:32:45,239 into too many details here and I'm 2499 01:32:48,649 --> 01:32:46,980 certainly not an expert on quantum 2500 01:32:51,110 --> 01:32:48,659 mechanics and Consciousness by any 2501 01:32:53,390 --> 01:32:51,120 stretch uh I think those are areas that 2502 01:32:56,570 --> 01:32:53,400 are just uh you know we're just barely 2503 01:32:58,250 --> 01:32:56,580 touching uh touching them right now but 2504 01:33:01,550 --> 01:32:58,260 I think 2505 01:33:03,830 --> 01:33:01,560 the space-time metric has to do 2506 01:33:06,290 --> 01:33:03,840 with Consciousness also and that they're 2507 01:33:07,610 --> 01:33:06,300 intertwined in some way and that our 2508 01:33:10,550 --> 01:33:07,620 intentions 2509 01:33:12,530 --> 01:33:10,560 can somehow affect that 2510 01:33:14,270 --> 01:33:12,540 um and um and everyone how I was trying 2511 01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:14,280 to explain it to me once and I remember 2512 01:33:18,290 --> 01:33:15,840 listening to him and I remember saying 2513 01:33:20,570 --> 01:33:18,300 oh that's absolutely brilliant and then 2514 01:33:22,850 --> 01:33:20,580 completely forgetting uh you know you 2515 01:33:25,970 --> 01:33:22,860 know after he said it I mean I I just I 2516 01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:25,980 I try to recreate it in my mind uh what 2517 01:33:31,310 --> 01:33:29,520 he what he had what he had told me 2518 01:33:34,430 --> 01:33:31,320 um and this is all part of some of the 2519 01:33:36,950 --> 01:33:34,440 briefings that I had the classified ones 2520 01:33:38,750 --> 01:33:36,960 too about this this topic and that's 2521 01:33:42,709 --> 01:33:38,760 what got me all 2522 01:33:44,330 --> 01:33:42,719 spun up uh wound up and as my wife said 2523 01:33:46,970 --> 01:33:44,340 you know I had that three mile stair 2524 01:33:49,910 --> 01:33:46,980 that lasted for three months um um when 2525 01:33:51,350 --> 01:33:49,920 when it happened because they were being 2526 01:33:54,110 --> 01:33:51,360 explained it was being explained by 2527 01:33:55,850 --> 01:33:54,120 experts and I and I'm not the brightest 2528 01:33:58,189 --> 01:33:55,860 bulb you know uh you know in the 2529 01:34:00,229 --> 01:33:58,199 chandelier I'm just not I'm I have a I'm 2530 01:34:02,390 --> 01:34:00,239 a man of maybe average intelligence and 2531 01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:02,400 sometimes skirts up into the above 2532 01:34:07,070 --> 01:34:04,080 average intelligence for a short period 2533 01:34:08,870 --> 01:34:07,080 And I come back down so um and I have a 2534 01:34:10,790 --> 01:34:08,880 great deal of literary Amnesia I read 2535 01:34:12,169 --> 01:34:10,800 quite a bit and I don't I don't retain a 2536 01:34:14,330 --> 01:34:12,179 lot I don't know why it's always been my 2537 01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:14,340 whole life it's been that way uh but 2538 01:34:19,310 --> 01:34:17,760 yeah uh you know I I I I I I I I do know 2539 01:34:21,770 --> 01:34:19,320 that they're interconnected in some form 2540 01:34:23,390 --> 01:34:21,780 or fashion but I don't think it's within 2541 01:34:24,350 --> 01:34:23,400 my power to be able to explain it to 2542 01:34:26,930 --> 01:34:24,360 anybody 2543 01:34:29,149 --> 01:34:26,940 a question from Todd do you see any 2544 01:34:32,149 --> 01:34:29,159 potential danger in the trend for 2545 01:34:34,129 --> 01:34:32,159 experimentation with ce5 or human 2546 01:34:36,709 --> 01:34:34,139 initiated contact 2547 01:34:37,970 --> 01:34:36,719 Yes Yes actually I do and I think I've 2548 01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:37,980 spoken about this before in other 2549 01:34:44,390 --> 01:34:39,360 podcasts 2550 01:34:47,990 --> 01:34:44,400 um I'm not uh I'm not a a a a a a big 2551 01:34:49,910 --> 01:34:48,000 fan of of ce5 and and and and not not 2552 01:34:52,430 --> 01:34:49,920 because I I don't think it's worthwhile 2553 01:34:55,669 --> 01:34:52,440 I think it needs to be done by people 2554 01:34:57,530 --> 01:34:55,679 that are very well tethered uh to the 2555 01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:57,540 ground that have a very very strong 2556 01:35:01,070 --> 01:34:59,760 sense of themselves that are very strong 2557 01:35:02,990 --> 01:35:01,080 emotionally 2558 01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:03,000 and mentally 2559 01:35:06,590 --> 01:35:04,800 I I don't consider myself in that 2560 01:35:08,570 --> 01:35:06,600 bracket by the way 2561 01:35:10,610 --> 01:35:08,580 um and the reason I say that 2562 01:35:12,890 --> 01:35:10,620 is because I had a friend of mine 2563 01:35:15,010 --> 01:35:12,900 who was running a part of the remote 2564 01:35:18,110 --> 01:35:15,020 viewing program 2565 01:35:20,930 --> 01:35:18,120 and um he actually came to work for me 2566 01:35:22,250 --> 01:35:20,940 while I was still at CIA and I was 2567 01:35:23,510 --> 01:35:22,260 I had heard about the remembering 2568 01:35:26,030 --> 01:35:23,520 program and I was reading a book and it 2569 01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:26,040 turns out the book I was reading was 2570 01:35:30,050 --> 01:35:28,800 about his experiences so I questioned 2571 01:35:32,209 --> 01:35:30,060 him about it and he said yeah that's 2572 01:35:35,870 --> 01:35:32,219 actually me and they were using a 2573 01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:35,880 pseudonym and he told me this story of 2574 01:35:39,649 --> 01:35:37,920 one of the remote viewers who went out 2575 01:35:43,910 --> 01:35:39,659 and never came back 2576 01:35:46,790 --> 01:35:43,920 uh Nan had a family uh and um he 2577 01:35:50,510 --> 01:35:46,800 essentially became catatonic 2578 01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:50,520 um this is not one example it's many 2579 01:35:56,450 --> 01:35:53,280 examples I have heard of people that 2580 01:35:57,709 --> 01:35:56,460 have been affected physically mentally 2581 01:35:59,270 --> 01:35:57,719 uh 2582 01:36:01,189 --> 01:35:59,280 let's say spiritually in some respects 2583 01:36:03,590 --> 01:36:01,199 but that's more or less you know 2584 01:36:05,570 --> 01:36:03,600 questioning you know their life after 2585 01:36:07,250 --> 01:36:05,580 that but it's not something to be 2586 01:36:10,189 --> 01:36:07,260 trifled with it's like a Ouija board 2587 01:36:12,229 --> 01:36:10,199 it's um you know communicating with the 2588 01:36:13,669 --> 01:36:12,239 dead things along those lines you don't 2589 01:36:14,990 --> 01:36:13,679 know whether you're dealing with 2590 01:36:17,689 --> 01:36:15,000 Elementals 2591 01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:17,699 lower Spiritual Beings higher Spiritual 2592 01:36:21,110 --> 01:36:19,199 Beings 2593 01:36:22,669 --> 01:36:21,120 um and if you want an example of that a 2594 01:36:24,290 --> 01:36:22,679 good Catholic example of that there was 2595 01:36:27,350 --> 01:36:24,300 a wonderful book written not well about 2596 01:36:30,290 --> 01:36:27,360 20 or 30 years ago called by Mordecai uh 2597 01:36:33,729 --> 01:36:30,300 no um oh my God what's his name 2598 01:36:37,790 --> 01:36:36,470 Malachi Martin and it was called Hostage 2599 01:36:40,490 --> 01:36:37,800 to the devil I don't know if you ever 2600 01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:40,500 come across that fascinating book I 2601 01:36:44,390 --> 01:36:41,760 don't know if you can get it anymore but 2602 01:36:46,370 --> 01:36:44,400 I I I would finish a chapter put it down 2603 01:36:48,770 --> 01:36:46,380 couldn't go back for a month and and you 2604 01:36:50,810 --> 01:36:48,780 talk about possession and the idea of 2605 01:36:52,910 --> 01:36:50,820 possession and being possessed by a 2606 01:36:54,890 --> 01:36:52,920 lower lower Elementals or you know what 2607 01:36:56,510 --> 01:36:54,900 he would call demons and what have you 2608 01:37:00,410 --> 01:36:56,520 these guys are Jesuit probably had a 2609 01:37:02,209 --> 01:37:00,420 couple phds uh uh and but it was a very 2610 01:37:05,090 --> 01:37:02,219 very bright bright guy he was always on 2611 01:37:06,830 --> 01:37:05,100 uh uh late John Long John Neville and 2612 01:37:08,750 --> 01:37:06,840 Art Bell he was on our Bell for a long 2613 01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:08,760 time and he would come on every once in 2614 01:37:11,930 --> 01:37:10,320 a while if anybody can belongs to Coast 2615 01:37:14,330 --> 01:37:11,940 to Coast you can go back and pull some 2616 01:37:16,790 --> 01:37:14,340 of this stuff up but um yeah you got to 2617 01:37:19,090 --> 01:37:16,800 be very very careful very very careful I 2618 01:37:22,250 --> 01:37:19,100 don't encourage seances 2619 01:37:24,530 --> 01:37:22,260 uh trips with the Ouija board ce5 2620 01:37:26,030 --> 01:37:24,540 anything like that unless again you're 2621 01:37:28,250 --> 01:37:26,040 with other people you're with an 2622 01:37:30,530 --> 01:37:28,260 experienced person it to me it's like 2623 01:37:34,129 --> 01:37:30,540 taking Ayahuasca or experimenting with 2624 01:37:37,790 --> 01:37:34,139 LSD or psilocybin if you do it you know 2625 01:37:40,430 --> 01:37:37,800 in in a controlled situation sure go 2626 01:37:42,530 --> 01:37:40,440 ahead but don't try it by yourself and 2627 01:37:45,110 --> 01:37:42,540 don't do it just for the hell of it 2628 01:37:47,410 --> 01:37:45,120 final lesson a question from Tim how has 2629 01:37:50,090 --> 01:37:47,420 the U.S government been nearly 100 2630 01:37:52,310 --> 01:37:50,100 successful in keeping the nature of this 2631 01:37:55,310 --> 01:37:52,320 phenomenon secret from its citizens and 2632 01:37:58,250 --> 01:37:55,320 the world is it by clandestine design or 2633 01:37:59,930 --> 01:37:58,260 simply the an indeterminacy of the 2634 01:38:01,370 --> 01:37:59,940 phenomenon 2635 01:38:02,930 --> 01:38:01,380 I think there's a little bit about it 2636 01:38:05,209 --> 01:38:02,940 but I think I think the government you 2637 01:38:07,750 --> 01:38:05,219 know again as I said before 2638 01:38:11,870 --> 01:38:07,760 um I don't think the government ever 2639 01:38:15,770 --> 01:38:11,880 abandoned uh their interest in uaps you 2640 01:38:19,790 --> 01:38:15,780 know ever since Roswell in 47. I think 2641 01:38:22,970 --> 01:38:19,800 it was then that they really had they 2642 01:38:26,330 --> 01:38:22,980 really had concerns uh about 2643 01:38:27,950 --> 01:38:26,340 um uh about the Soviets at the time and 2644 01:38:30,169 --> 01:38:27,960 you know clogging up the communication 2645 01:38:32,209 --> 01:38:30,179 fines using it in psychological warfare 2646 01:38:35,149 --> 01:38:32,219 against us and these are very very real 2647 01:38:37,149 --> 01:38:35,159 concerns and you know what we we have a 2648 01:38:39,050 --> 01:38:37,159 you know a problem with 2649 01:38:41,750 --> 01:38:39,060 presentism you know what I mean this 2650 01:38:43,910 --> 01:38:41,760 whole idea we're looking at things now 2651 01:38:45,470 --> 01:38:43,920 you know through our uh through our eyes 2652 01:38:48,050 --> 01:38:45,480 you know back what they were like in the 2653 01:38:50,750 --> 01:38:48,060 40s and the 50s back in the 40s and the 2654 01:38:52,550 --> 01:38:50,760 50s it was a very dangerous time and 2655 01:38:55,669 --> 01:38:52,560 people were afraid they were very very 2656 01:38:57,830 --> 01:38:55,679 afraid and um so you had these groups 2657 01:38:59,450 --> 01:38:57,840 and uh and you know and you know America 2658 01:39:01,610 --> 01:38:59,460 was very young back then I mean we 2659 01:39:04,010 --> 01:39:01,620 didn't have the communication system was 2660 01:39:05,870 --> 01:39:04,020 pretty primitive uh many people didn't 2661 01:39:07,189 --> 01:39:05,880 have phones and then when they had 2662 01:39:08,450 --> 01:39:07,199 phones you know they had these lines I 2663 01:39:10,610 --> 01:39:08,460 mean I would I'm gonna have to remember 2664 01:39:12,290 --> 01:39:10,620 party lines you know where you had a 2665 01:39:13,970 --> 01:39:12,300 phone you shared with other people in 2666 01:39:15,290 --> 01:39:13,980 your neighborhood right you can actually 2667 01:39:16,790 --> 01:39:15,300 pick up the phone and hear him talking 2668 01:39:18,770 --> 01:39:16,800 and hope to how they get off so you can 2669 01:39:20,510 --> 01:39:18,780 make your phone call so it was pretty 2670 01:39:22,010 --> 01:39:20,520 primitive back in those days and the 2671 01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:22,020 Soviet Union was bounding on the 2672 01:39:24,770 --> 01:39:23,040 internet 2673 01:39:26,510 --> 01:39:24,780 on the thing we were going to take over 2674 01:39:28,010 --> 01:39:26,520 America we're going to bury you and you 2675 01:39:30,830 --> 01:39:28,020 know and they they had a nuclear weapon 2676 01:39:32,750 --> 01:39:30,840 we had nuclear weapons so there was this 2677 01:39:34,669 --> 01:39:32,760 whole element of we didn't know what the 2678 01:39:35,750 --> 01:39:34,679 phenomena actually was we didn't know 2679 01:39:37,610 --> 01:39:35,760 whether the Soviets were going to 2680 01:39:39,590 --> 01:39:37,620 actually use it uh you know 2681 01:39:42,830 --> 01:39:39,600 psychologically against us or to you 2682 01:39:44,390 --> 01:39:42,840 know create Panic so they they did that 2683 01:39:45,950 --> 01:39:44,400 and I don't know if there was ever I 2684 01:39:47,270 --> 01:39:45,960 mean I was at the Robertson panel you 2685 01:39:48,290 --> 01:39:47,280 know where the CIA comes out and said 2686 01:39:49,729 --> 01:39:48,300 look you know we really got to do 2687 01:39:51,590 --> 01:39:49,739 everything in our power to dissuade 2688 01:39:54,110 --> 01:39:51,600 people from doing this we'll get with 2689 01:39:56,330 --> 01:39:54,120 you know uh the media you know 2690 01:39:57,709 --> 01:39:56,340 entertainment industry try to poo poo 2691 01:39:59,810 --> 01:39:57,719 all this 2692 01:40:02,209 --> 01:39:59,820 um they wanted to do that I never heard 2693 01:40:04,729 --> 01:40:02,219 of I never seen the actual evidence that 2694 01:40:06,830 --> 01:40:04,739 they actually had a you know a a 2695 01:40:08,870 --> 01:40:06,840 considered program where they actually 2696 01:40:10,790 --> 01:40:08,880 did that but 2697 01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,800 if you had something you really wanted 2698 01:40:13,850 --> 01:40:12,239 to hide 2699 01:40:15,350 --> 01:40:13,860 and this was before Freedom of 2700 01:40:17,450 --> 01:40:15,360 Information Act I mean how would you 2701 01:40:19,010 --> 01:40:17,460 hide it well you know 2702 01:40:20,270 --> 01:40:19,020 well this is what Eisenhower talked 2703 01:40:22,610 --> 01:40:20,280 about about the military industrial 2704 01:40:24,470 --> 01:40:22,620 complex after World War II I mean before 2705 01:40:26,149 --> 01:40:24,480 World War II we didn't have that there 2706 01:40:28,790 --> 01:40:26,159 was no military intestinal contract 2707 01:40:30,470 --> 01:40:28,800 after World War II we realized if 2708 01:40:33,290 --> 01:40:30,480 there's any way we were going to compete 2709 01:40:35,810 --> 01:40:33,300 on a national basis we'd have to have a 2710 01:40:38,689 --> 01:40:35,820 military-industrial complex we needed 2711 01:40:41,570 --> 01:40:38,699 industry that basically 2712 01:40:43,250 --> 01:40:41,580 stay ahead technologically uh you know 2713 01:40:44,750 --> 01:40:43,260 because you know with paper clip we had 2714 01:40:46,910 --> 01:40:44,760 all these German scientists the Russian 2715 01:40:48,890 --> 01:40:46,920 stuff German scientists we realized 2716 01:40:50,689 --> 01:40:48,900 where the Russians were on a lot of and 2717 01:40:52,189 --> 01:40:50,699 you know on a lot of Technologies we 2718 01:40:53,570 --> 01:40:52,199 knew we had to keep those up missiles 2719 01:40:54,410 --> 01:40:53,580 were being developed things along those 2720 01:40:55,970 --> 01:40:54,420 lines 2721 01:40:58,970 --> 01:40:55,980 so 2722 01:41:01,910 --> 01:40:58,980 hide that well you hide it basically 2723 01:41:03,770 --> 01:41:01,920 through you know industry you know and 2724 01:41:04,550 --> 01:41:03,780 you basically say to them I'm going to 2725 01:41:06,290 --> 01:41:04,560 give you 2726 01:41:08,390 --> 01:41:06,300 you know 100 million dollars and I want 2727 01:41:09,709 --> 01:41:08,400 you to work on this program you know so 2728 01:41:11,870 --> 01:41:09,719 where the program is going to be 2729 01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:11,880 developing a new missile or maybe it's 2730 01:41:16,610 --> 01:41:14,400 you know looking into the phenomenon or 2731 01:41:17,930 --> 01:41:16,620 looking into you know the Roswell crash 2732 01:41:19,550 --> 01:41:17,940 and trying to figure out how this 2733 01:41:21,890 --> 01:41:19,560 technology works 2734 01:41:23,750 --> 01:41:21,900 it's pretty easy way to do it 2735 01:41:25,669 --> 01:41:23,760 um and then the other thing is you you 2736 01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,679 restrict it uh you have a bigoted 2737 01:41:29,209 --> 01:41:26,639 program 2738 01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:29,219 you allow only certain people and maybe 2739 01:41:32,450 --> 01:41:30,719 one person on the National Security 2740 01:41:34,669 --> 01:41:32,460 Council maybe three or four people in 2741 01:41:36,470 --> 01:41:34,679 the Pentagon you don't necessarily tell 2742 01:41:37,970 --> 01:41:36,480 people that are going to be replaced 2743 01:41:40,430 --> 01:41:37,980 every two or three years like a lot of 2744 01:41:43,370 --> 01:41:40,440 people are uh that includes you know 2745 01:41:45,229 --> 01:41:43,380 maybe the president maybe the um 2746 01:41:47,270 --> 01:41:45,239 you know chairman of Joint Chiefs of 2747 01:41:49,070 --> 01:41:47,280 Staff Joint Chiefs of Staff you always 2748 01:41:50,689 --> 01:41:49,080 want to have somebody who knows just in 2749 01:41:52,609 --> 01:41:50,699 case something comes up but particularly 2750 01:41:54,290 --> 01:41:52,619 if it's a topic where you're really not 2751 01:41:55,609 --> 01:41:54,300 making a lot of progress anyway 2752 01:41:57,290 --> 01:41:55,619 to how do you want to brief everybody 2753 01:42:00,290 --> 01:41:57,300 for I mean I mean you know it's it's 2754 01:42:03,530 --> 01:42:00,300 like you know bringing politicians you 2755 01:42:05,330 --> 01:42:03,540 know that come and go into into highly 2756 01:42:07,729 --> 01:42:05,340 classified programs well if they're on 2757 01:42:09,590 --> 01:42:07,739 if they're part of the gang of eight or 2758 01:42:11,149 --> 01:42:09,600 they're part of and hipsy yeah 2759 01:42:13,010 --> 01:42:11,159 those are the places you might want to 2760 01:42:14,510 --> 01:42:13,020 tell but if you wanted to hide something 2761 01:42:16,790 --> 01:42:14,520 really hide something you might go to 2762 01:42:18,590 --> 01:42:16,800 the head of or hipsy and say this 2763 01:42:20,629 --> 01:42:18,600 is a very special program we can't share 2764 01:42:22,310 --> 01:42:20,639 and here are the reasons why you're 2765 01:42:23,870 --> 01:42:22,320 telling somebody in the government you 2766 01:42:26,570 --> 01:42:23,880 know is that good enough I don't know 2767 01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:26,580 probably not in my opinion yeah you know 2768 01:42:31,550 --> 01:42:29,760 but but I do know that there were 2769 01:42:33,649 --> 01:42:31,560 decisions that were made in the 60s and 2770 01:42:35,870 --> 01:42:33,659 the 70s 2771 01:42:37,609 --> 01:42:35,880 and my information doesn't go farther 2772 01:42:40,609 --> 01:42:37,619 than that where they actually did 2773 01:42:44,149 --> 01:42:40,619 discuss do we bring this topic up this 2774 01:42:46,370 --> 01:42:44,159 phenomena this this UAP UFO but also 2775 01:42:47,870 --> 01:42:46,380 with the phenomenon did we bring this up 2776 01:42:50,810 --> 01:42:47,880 because there's plenty of evidence right 2777 01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:50,820 that the military had that it exists 2778 01:42:55,189 --> 01:42:52,320 but you have to sort of look at that and 2779 01:42:57,050 --> 01:42:55,199 you know they made the decision not to 2780 01:42:59,390 --> 01:42:57,060 um I I don't think it was a wise 2781 01:43:01,010 --> 01:42:59,400 decision in the end but nevertheless I 2782 01:43:02,930 --> 01:43:01,020 wasn't there and you know I don't have a 2783 01:43:05,330 --> 01:43:02,940 50 000 foot view either 2784 01:43:07,310 --> 01:43:05,340 so thank you to the listeners for 2785 01:43:09,470 --> 01:43:07,320 sending in those questions and sorry if 2786 01:43:11,750 --> 01:43:09,480 I didn't get to the many uh ones that 2787 01:43:13,370 --> 01:43:11,760 you did send in but maybe next time if 2788 01:43:15,169 --> 01:43:13,380 Jim does go back to the podcasting 2789 01:43:16,850 --> 01:43:15,179 circuit down the road Jim you've been 2790 01:43:18,350 --> 01:43:16,860 incredibly generous with your time do 2791 01:43:20,390 --> 01:43:18,360 you have two more minutes to finish off 2792 01:43:22,010 --> 01:43:20,400 with that quick fire it can be as long 2793 01:43:23,930 --> 01:43:22,020 as you need it to be just a few words on 2794 01:43:25,609 --> 01:43:23,940 each round 2795 01:43:28,550 --> 01:43:25,619 yeah uh 2796 01:43:30,229 --> 01:43:28,560 I'm sorry would you wanted me to or no 2797 01:43:32,330 --> 01:43:30,239 I'm going to throw a few things out at 2798 01:43:33,590 --> 01:43:32,340 you um just a few words phrases and if 2799 01:43:35,270 --> 01:43:33,600 you can just give us a couple of words 2800 01:43:38,149 --> 01:43:35,280 or sentences on each one that would be 2801 01:43:39,649 --> 01:43:38,159 great yes I'm more unhappy awesome so uh 2802 01:43:42,590 --> 01:43:39,659 the first one is your opinion on 2803 01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:45,109 oh my opinion on skin wet totally real I 2804 01:43:48,709 --> 01:43:46,800 know everybody that was involved in it I 2805 01:43:54,169 --> 01:43:48,719 know them personally 2806 01:43:56,330 --> 01:43:54,179 um uh uh uh uh I'm I I am a veteran 2807 01:43:58,370 --> 01:43:56,340 believer yes getting Locker around I 2808 01:44:00,830 --> 01:43:58,380 recommend those books the ones that a 2809 01:44:02,330 --> 01:44:00,840 nap George nap and uh Kelleher wrote I 2810 01:44:04,430 --> 01:44:02,340 recommend them both books uh 2811 01:44:06,770 --> 01:44:04,440 particularly the second one 2812 01:44:08,570 --> 01:44:06,780 um yes you yes skinwalkers at the 2813 01:44:12,649 --> 01:44:08,580 Pentagon it's an absolutely excellent 2814 01:44:14,689 --> 01:44:12,659 book it it it it it brings up and I'll 2815 01:44:17,410 --> 01:44:14,699 make this short but with with Jim 2816 01:44:20,209 --> 01:44:17,420 lakotsky and the Bigelow people 2817 01:44:22,729 --> 01:44:20,219 basically came up was was look it's not 2818 01:44:25,669 --> 01:44:22,739 nuts and bolts it's much much more than 2819 01:44:28,669 --> 01:44:25,679 that and if you read any of the books by 2820 01:44:29,629 --> 01:44:28,679 uh already six killer Clark I don't know 2821 01:44:31,490 --> 01:44:29,639 if you're familiar with them but she 2822 01:44:33,709 --> 01:44:31,500 talks about indigenous people in Central 2823 01:44:36,410 --> 01:44:33,719 and South America and then also in North 2824 01:44:38,689 --> 01:44:36,420 America about their religious 2825 01:44:39,890 --> 01:44:38,699 or they're in their cosmological beliefs 2826 01:44:41,629 --> 01:44:39,900 and and what have you you're going to 2827 01:44:43,550 --> 01:44:41,639 get the same thing from them I mean 2828 01:44:45,470 --> 01:44:43,560 those are extraordinarily books uh 2829 01:44:47,270 --> 01:44:45,480 extraordinary books she's written so I 2830 01:44:48,890 --> 01:44:47,280 always recommend skin walker and and 2831 01:44:51,050 --> 01:44:48,900 already six killer clerks if you really 2832 01:44:55,910 --> 01:44:51,060 want to get into sort of the uh Native 2833 01:44:58,729 --> 01:44:55,920 American or uh um early American belief 2834 01:45:03,470 --> 01:44:58,739 systems and cosmologies uh in in the 2835 01:45:06,770 --> 01:45:03,480 Americas yeah next up would be Bob Lazar 2836 01:45:09,830 --> 01:45:06,780 yeah I I that's a tough tough tough one 2837 01:45:09,840 --> 01:45:13,010 um uh originally 2838 01:45:20,030 --> 01:45:16,850 uh gave Bob Lazar a lot of credit I know 2839 01:45:23,390 --> 01:45:20,040 George Knapp is a firm believer in what 2840 01:45:26,030 --> 01:45:23,400 Bob says I made a comment on a podcast 2841 01:45:27,950 --> 01:45:26,040 oh I don't know maybe six six months ago 2842 01:45:30,229 --> 01:45:27,960 or I said yeah I sort of believe what 2843 01:45:32,990 --> 01:45:30,239 what Bob was I never met Bob I don't 2844 01:45:34,970 --> 01:45:33,000 know I mean I was sad too and then I got 2845 01:45:37,790 --> 01:45:34,980 um I got a reamed 2846 01:45:40,450 --> 01:45:37,800 um uh by a lot of my friends saying no 2847 01:45:44,930 --> 01:45:40,460 no no you know don't say that 2848 01:45:46,790 --> 01:45:44,940 uh uh uh the answer is I 2849 01:45:48,590 --> 01:45:46,800 I don't know I mean George George 2850 01:45:50,330 --> 01:45:48,600 believes Bob Lazar 2851 01:45:52,970 --> 01:45:50,340 I think there might be something to it 2852 01:45:55,010 --> 01:45:52,980 but I uh I guess I you know I took a 2853 01:45:57,709 --> 01:45:55,020 second look and I'm just gonna raise my 2854 01:45:59,510 --> 01:45:57,719 hands and say I don't know that's fair 2855 01:46:00,830 --> 01:45:59,520 um your thoughts on the Wilson Davies 2856 01:46:02,629 --> 01:46:00,840 memo 2857 01:46:05,090 --> 01:46:02,639 I won't comment on that 2858 01:46:06,410 --> 01:46:05,100 okay Hot Topic in the news right now on 2859 01:46:08,870 --> 01:46:06,420 social media 2860 01:46:12,890 --> 01:46:08,880 um your biggest disappointment or regret 2861 01:46:19,550 --> 01:46:15,290 um I think we under my biggest really my 2862 01:46:20,270 --> 01:46:19,560 biggest regret was ttsa underestimating 2863 01:46:24,169 --> 01:46:20,280 um 2864 01:46:27,910 --> 01:46:24,179 the interest 2865 01:46:30,290 --> 01:46:27,920 um uh in in 2866 01:46:33,530 --> 01:46:30,300 underestimating the amount of people uh 2867 01:46:37,669 --> 01:46:33,540 that would be interested in in making a 2868 01:46:39,050 --> 01:46:37,679 uh a public uh uh entity that would 2869 01:46:40,790 --> 01:46:39,060 investigate the phenomenon in other 2870 01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:40,800 words we thought it would be way more 2871 01:46:44,870 --> 01:46:43,199 people would have seen the videos and 2872 01:46:47,689 --> 01:46:44,880 would have jumped on board and and maybe 2873 01:46:50,330 --> 01:46:47,699 not even with TTS able but some other 2874 01:46:53,870 --> 01:46:50,340 organization it didn't really matter I 2875 01:46:56,450 --> 01:46:53,880 was very sort of disappointed I I uh and 2876 01:46:58,970 --> 01:46:56,460 then it just dawned on me and you know 2877 01:47:01,430 --> 01:46:58,980 and John Alexander who I you know I I 2878 01:47:04,370 --> 01:47:01,440 he's a mentor of mine and I know he told 2879 01:47:06,350 --> 01:47:04,380 me he said Jim he said this is not on 2880 01:47:08,870 --> 01:47:06,360 the list it's like number 50 on the list 2881 01:47:12,470 --> 01:47:08,880 of most people and he explained to me 2882 01:47:16,129 --> 01:47:12,480 and and I always come to believe we are 2883 01:47:18,290 --> 01:47:16,139 a very very small group 2884 01:47:20,330 --> 01:47:18,300 um a fellow Travelers here the UFO 2885 01:47:23,570 --> 01:47:20,340 Community you me everybody who's 2886 01:47:25,310 --> 01:47:23,580 listening out there very very small uh 2887 01:47:27,649 --> 01:47:25,320 we think we're large you know there's a 2888 01:47:29,629 --> 01:47:27,659 pull Roper you know polls and say oh 60 2889 01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:29,639 of people believe in this and 70 percent 2890 01:47:34,010 --> 01:47:31,920 of people quote unquote had some kind of 2891 01:47:36,770 --> 01:47:34,020 experience that may be the case but 2892 01:47:39,229 --> 01:47:36,780 these people sure as hell don't don't um 2893 01:47:42,590 --> 01:47:39,239 spend uh very much of their time on this 2894 01:47:45,350 --> 01:47:42,600 topic it's a very small niche and and 2895 01:47:46,189 --> 01:47:45,360 I'm very proud though of what has 2896 01:47:48,229 --> 01:47:46,199 happened 2897 01:47:50,270 --> 01:47:48,239 that we actually got the greatest 2898 01:47:52,330 --> 01:47:50,280 country in the world or or at least the 2899 01:47:53,990 --> 01:47:52,340 most powerful country in the world 2900 01:47:56,570 --> 01:47:54,000 listening 2901 01:47:58,729 --> 01:47:56,580 that was the big deal as far as I'm 2902 01:48:00,649 --> 01:47:58,739 concerned and that wasn't just ttsa that 2903 01:48:03,169 --> 01:48:00,659 was everybody that was everybody who 2904 01:48:04,850 --> 01:48:03,179 came before ttsa just happened to be 2905 01:48:07,669 --> 01:48:04,860 there at that right time to bring these 2906 01:48:09,830 --> 01:48:07,679 things out but it was this long history 2907 01:48:11,750 --> 01:48:09,840 of people you know that I've mentioned 2908 01:48:14,209 --> 01:48:11,760 earlier before and 2909 01:48:17,209 --> 01:48:14,219 um really had did all the hard hard work 2910 01:48:19,430 --> 01:48:17,219 on this and you know and that I'm sort 2911 01:48:20,750 --> 01:48:19,440 of glad that that came that way but my 2912 01:48:23,750 --> 01:48:20,760 disappointment is 2913 01:48:26,510 --> 01:48:23,760 we can't seem to we can't seem to work 2914 01:48:29,270 --> 01:48:26,520 together we can't seem to you know these 2915 01:48:31,310 --> 01:48:29,280 all these disparate UFO or and you know 2916 01:48:33,530 --> 01:48:31,320 organizations we just 2917 01:48:35,990 --> 01:48:33,540 this can't seem to pull it all together 2918 01:48:38,330 --> 01:48:36,000 and and um 2919 01:48:40,010 --> 01:48:38,340 you know that's sort of a disappointment 2920 01:48:41,689 --> 01:48:40,020 because we're all getting old I mean you 2921 01:48:43,189 --> 01:48:41,699 know I mean I'm old Jack valet is not 2922 01:48:44,450 --> 01:48:43,199 you know a spring chicken all these 2923 01:48:46,129 --> 01:48:44,460 people are not 2924 01:48:47,689 --> 01:48:46,139 you know where and we talked about this 2925 01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:47,699 when I was out at that conference you 2926 01:48:51,830 --> 01:48:50,639 know in California I mean 20 of us what 2927 01:48:55,010 --> 01:48:51,840 are we gonna do 2928 01:48:56,870 --> 01:48:55,020 we're not getting any younger and um 2929 01:48:59,450 --> 01:48:56,880 we have to rely on I guess people like 2930 01:49:01,430 --> 01:48:59,460 you to to to move this move this forward 2931 01:49:03,649 --> 01:49:01,440 when we go you know I don't want to go 2932 01:49:06,590 --> 01:49:03,659 anytime soon but uh you know 2933 01:49:07,729 --> 01:49:06,600 nevertheless well we hope not and I was 2934 01:49:09,109 --> 01:49:07,739 going to ask you next to what were you 2935 01:49:11,510 --> 01:49:09,119 most proud of when you've answered that 2936 01:49:13,970 --> 01:49:11,520 so let me finish with what do you think 2937 01:49:16,490 --> 01:49:13,980 right now as we speak as the single 2938 01:49:19,729 --> 01:49:16,500 biggest obstacle holding back further 2939 01:49:26,570 --> 01:49:19,739 progress in the UFO discussion 2940 01:49:29,450 --> 01:49:28,129 I would just have to say what I said 2941 01:49:32,870 --> 01:49:29,460 earlier it's 2942 01:49:38,570 --> 01:49:32,880 it's the it's the phenomenon itself 2943 01:49:41,149 --> 01:49:38,580 it doesn't give us enough it it we have 2944 01:49:42,410 --> 01:49:41,159 we have overwhelming evidence that it 2945 01:49:45,709 --> 01:49:42,420 exists 2946 01:49:47,870 --> 01:49:45,719 but it is not the kind of evidence that 2947 01:49:49,729 --> 01:49:47,880 would that you and I can look at it and 2948 01:49:53,209 --> 01:49:49,739 say fine but it is not the kind of 2949 01:49:56,149 --> 01:49:53,219 evidence that our 2950 01:49:59,629 --> 01:49:56,159 our scientific establishment would take 2951 01:50:01,910 --> 01:49:59,639 at face value and say yes yes 2952 01:50:04,970 --> 01:50:01,920 the problem is as I've said before 2953 01:50:07,790 --> 01:50:04,980 there's no there there we know remote 2954 01:50:11,689 --> 01:50:07,800 viewing exists we know it works 2955 01:50:13,729 --> 01:50:11,699 absolutely works we can't explain how it 2956 01:50:16,310 --> 01:50:13,739 works and because we can't explain how 2957 01:50:20,570 --> 01:50:16,320 it works it's not taken seriously that's 2958 01:50:22,729 --> 01:50:20,580 why CIA stopped the program in 1995. 2959 01:50:25,189 --> 01:50:22,739 um uh you know in the military I'm sure 2960 01:50:26,810 --> 01:50:25,199 picked it back up again but try to find 2961 01:50:28,370 --> 01:50:26,820 out I mean you know you know how it 2962 01:50:31,010 --> 01:50:28,380 works how telepathy Works how anything 2963 01:50:33,590 --> 01:50:31,020 works you know we have these 2964 01:50:36,050 --> 01:50:33,600 unbelievable radar images and I'm I'm 2965 01:50:38,870 --> 01:50:36,060 sure gun camera footage 2966 01:50:40,970 --> 01:50:38,880 much better than what you've seen uh of 2967 01:50:43,790 --> 01:50:40,980 you know Tic Tac and all these other you 2968 01:50:47,930 --> 01:50:45,950 people still talk about oh those are in 2969 01:50:48,950 --> 01:50:47,940 radar anomalies or weather anomalies or 2970 01:50:51,410 --> 01:50:48,960 this and that and the reason they're 2971 01:50:53,510 --> 01:50:51,420 doing that is because we don't have 2972 01:50:55,790 --> 01:50:53,520 definitive proof for them these 2973 01:50:58,010 --> 01:50:55,800 scientists decide look this is what this 2974 01:51:01,729 --> 01:50:58,020 is what it is we need that one picture 2975 01:51:04,129 --> 01:51:01,739 we need that one video you know that is 2976 01:51:05,689 --> 01:51:04,139 it that was not altered or couldn't have 2977 01:51:07,669 --> 01:51:05,699 been altered or anything like that to 2978 01:51:08,870 --> 01:51:07,679 say okay this is this is who it is do 2979 01:51:10,790 --> 01:51:08,880 you remember remember that movie that 2980 01:51:11,870 --> 01:51:10,800 came out with Mel Gibson called signs 2981 01:51:16,189 --> 01:51:11,880 yes 2982 01:51:19,310 --> 01:51:16,199 these aliens invaded and there were 2983 01:51:21,470 --> 01:51:19,320 these real creepy looking you know ETS 2984 01:51:22,970 --> 01:51:21,480 we need something like that oh hopefully 2985 01:51:24,470 --> 01:51:22,980 not that though I mean I don't want 2986 01:51:26,570 --> 01:51:24,480 these clowns come showing up you know 2987 01:51:28,010 --> 01:51:26,580 but we need something like that 2988 01:51:30,050 --> 01:51:28,020 well do you know what I've got a sexual 2989 01:51:31,490 --> 01:51:30,060 son uh and a one-year-old son and a 2990 01:51:33,169 --> 01:51:31,500 four-year-old daughter who know their 2991 01:51:34,790 --> 01:51:33,179 daddy talks about aliens in a podcast 2992 01:51:36,950 --> 01:51:34,800 and he's talking to a man tonight about 2993 01:51:38,810 --> 01:51:36,960 aliens on his podcast I'm not 2994 01:51:40,129 --> 01:51:38,820 intelligent enough to to research it and 2995 01:51:42,410 --> 01:51:40,139 do anything about it but I hope 2996 01:51:44,209 --> 01:51:42,420 Generations like that coming up 2997 01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:44,219 can at least carry on the work that 2998 01:51:47,810 --> 01:51:46,080 starts now and has been going on for 2999 01:51:49,609 --> 01:51:47,820 decades and maybe they're the ones that 3000 01:51:50,689 --> 01:51:49,619 will really make the progress on this 3001 01:51:52,669 --> 01:51:50,699 discussion 3002 01:51:55,070 --> 01:51:52,679 maybe maybe so I think it's going to be 3003 01:51:57,290 --> 01:51:55,080 your generation though I hope so I mean 3004 01:51:59,030 --> 01:51:57,300 I'm 36 so I've got a good hopefully 3005 01:52:00,530 --> 01:51:59,040 double that left at least but I'm 3006 01:52:03,709 --> 01:52:00,540 Scottish so you know there's always that 3007 01:52:06,229 --> 01:52:03,719 against me listen Jim um I hope this 3008 01:52:08,149 --> 01:52:06,239 isn't your last appearance indefinitely 3009 01:52:09,410 --> 01:52:08,159 um but in case it is for a while is 3010 01:52:10,850 --> 01:52:09,420 there anything you'd like to say to the 3011 01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:10,860 audience at large and leave them with 3012 01:52:14,510 --> 01:52:12,480 one final message 3013 01:52:17,689 --> 01:52:14,520 yeah I I try to leave this every time I 3014 01:52:20,689 --> 01:52:17,699 have a podcast look do not lose faith do 3015 01:52:22,970 --> 01:52:20,699 not lose hope and if you had experiences 3016 01:52:25,729 --> 01:52:22,980 if you're an experiencer or a contactee 3017 01:52:28,430 --> 01:52:25,739 or just have a general interest in this 3018 01:52:30,050 --> 01:52:28,440 there will be an end result and I think 3019 01:52:33,350 --> 01:52:30,060 the end result 3020 01:52:35,330 --> 01:52:33,360 uh hopefully will come in your lifetime 3021 01:52:37,010 --> 01:52:35,340 maybe not in my lifetime but in your 3022 01:52:38,689 --> 01:52:37,020 lifetime but you have to keep your nose 3023 01:52:40,189 --> 01:52:38,699 to the grindstone you have to keep an 3024 01:52:42,290 --> 01:52:40,199 interest you have to keep plugging away 3025 01:52:44,030 --> 01:52:42,300 at this this is an absolutely 3026 01:52:45,770 --> 01:52:44,040 fascinating subject 3027 01:52:48,430 --> 01:52:45,780 I can't think of anything nor 3028 01:52:50,990 --> 01:52:48,440 fascinating than this this to me is just 3029 01:52:53,270 --> 01:52:51,000 it is the story of the Millennia and 3030 01:52:55,010 --> 01:52:53,280 whether people understand it or not and 3031 01:52:57,109 --> 01:52:55,020 you just have to stay stay the course 3032 01:52:58,729 --> 01:52:57,119 and keep the faith and if you're 3033 01:53:01,669 --> 01:52:58,739 bothered by this 3034 01:53:04,189 --> 01:53:01,679 it won't kill you it just won't you just 3035 01:53:06,109 --> 01:53:04,199 you have to basically just you know take 3036 01:53:07,490 --> 01:53:06,119 it for what it is and you know and put 3037 01:53:09,169 --> 01:53:07,500 it in its place 3038 01:53:11,570 --> 01:53:09,179 if it bothers you put it in another 3039 01:53:13,250 --> 01:53:11,580 place you can do that you can just take 3040 01:53:14,990 --> 01:53:13,260 it and move it up move it put it 3041 01:53:17,450 --> 01:53:15,000 someplace and then you know go on with 3042 01:53:19,370 --> 01:53:17,460 your life it shouldn't affect you if it 3043 01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:19,380 does affect you that that strongly then 3044 01:53:22,790 --> 01:53:20,880 again you might be just the opposite in 3045 01:53:24,530 --> 01:53:22,800 doing it so I guess what I'm saying is 3046 01:53:26,810 --> 01:53:24,540 fair forward 3047 01:53:29,390 --> 01:53:26,820 um um I I view you all as fellow fellow 3048 01:53:32,390 --> 01:53:29,400 Travelers and I um I'm absolutely 3049 01:53:34,910 --> 01:53:32,400 astounded that anybody would want to 3050 01:53:37,070 --> 01:53:34,920 listen to me uh and uh you know I spent 3051 01:53:39,050 --> 01:53:37,080 my my whole life in the background 3052 01:53:40,910 --> 01:53:39,060 someplace now I'm not pure yapping and 3053 01:53:42,770 --> 01:53:40,920 I'm very self-conscious about it because 3054 01:53:46,070 --> 01:53:42,780 I I don't feel like I'm helping anybody 3055 01:53:47,930 --> 01:53:46,080 and and um by just regurgitating the 3056 01:53:50,510 --> 01:53:47,940 same stuff over and over and over again 3057 01:53:52,490 --> 01:53:50,520 but there are lots and lots of people 3058 01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:52,500 out there in the government and all the 3059 01:53:55,850 --> 01:53:54,420 governments that are fascinated by this 3060 01:53:58,669 --> 01:53:55,860 and they're never going to let this 3061 01:54:01,070 --> 01:53:58,679 thing drop again it won't cat is out of 3062 01:54:03,109 --> 01:54:01,080 the bag Folks at the start of this year 3063 01:54:04,790 --> 01:54:03,119 I got a bit of a health scare and it 3064 01:54:06,709 --> 01:54:04,800 kick-started me to getting fitter 3065 01:54:09,590 --> 01:54:06,719 healthier and generally looking after 3066 01:54:11,689 --> 01:54:09,600 myself better a healthier breakfast was 3067 01:54:14,450 --> 01:54:11,699 high on my priority list and it should 3068 01:54:15,890 --> 01:54:14,460 be for you too magic spoon is the 3069 01:54:18,290 --> 01:54:15,900 perfect way to get in your morning 3070 01:54:20,209 --> 01:54:18,300 protein eating cereal that tastes like 3071 01:54:22,310 --> 01:54:20,219 it did when you were a kid without all 3072 01:54:24,890 --> 01:54:22,320 the bad stuff I can promise you there is 3073 01:54:26,930 --> 01:54:24,900 nothing unidentified in this cereal the 3074 01:54:29,570 --> 01:54:26,940 variety pack has four flavors including 3075 01:54:33,229 --> 01:54:29,580 cocoa fruity frosted and peanut butter 3076 01:54:36,169 --> 01:54:33,239 this pack has 0 grams of sugar 13 to 14 3077 01:54:39,229 --> 01:54:36,179 grams of protein and only four net grams 3078 01:54:41,689 --> 01:54:39,239 of carbs that are only 140 calories per 3079 01:54:44,810 --> 01:54:41,699 serving it's keto friendly gluten free 3080 01:54:46,970 --> 01:54:44,820 grain free soy free and low carb it's 3081 01:54:48,709 --> 01:54:46,980 delicious but super healthy cereal that 3082 01:54:51,229 --> 01:54:48,719 really brings joy to your mornings 3083 01:54:54,470 --> 01:54:51,239 afternoons are actually any time of day 3084 01:54:56,870 --> 01:54:54,480 go to magicspin.com forward slash that 3085 01:54:59,390 --> 01:54:56,880 UFO to grab a variety pack and try it 3086 01:55:02,450 --> 01:54:59,400 today be sure to use our promo code that 3087 01:55:05,090 --> 01:55:02,460 UFO at checkout to save five dollars off 3088 01:55:07,270 --> 01:55:05,100 your order Magic spoon is so confident 3089 01:55:10,430 --> 01:55:07,280 in their product it's packed with a 100 3090 01:55:12,109 --> 01:55:10,440 happiness guarantee so if for any reason 3091 01:55:14,930 --> 01:55:12,119 you don't like it they'll refund your 3092 01:55:16,910 --> 01:55:14,940 money no questions asked remember to get 3093 01:55:20,270 --> 01:55:16,920 your delicious bowl of guilt-free cereal 3094 01:55:23,270 --> 01:55:20,280 at magicspoon.com forward slash that UFO 3095 01:55:25,550 --> 01:55:23,280 and use that code that UFO to save five 3096 01:55:28,189 --> 01:55:25,560 dollars off thank you magicspoon for 3097 01:55:30,109 --> 01:55:28,199 sponsoring this episode that is all for 3098 01:55:32,149 --> 01:55:30,119 this week's show thank you very much for 3099 01:55:34,430 --> 01:55:32,159 listening please remember to leave the 3100 01:55:37,669 --> 01:55:34,440 podcast a review on your chosen platform 3101 01:55:39,709 --> 01:55:37,679 you can like retweet And subscribe that 3102 01:55:41,750 --> 01:55:39,719 would all be very much appreciated the 3103 01:55:43,609 --> 01:55:41,760 shows are being uploaded onto YouTube as 3104 01:55:46,250 --> 01:55:43,619 we speak more and more you can sign up 3105 01:55:48,649 --> 01:55:46,260 at patreon.com forward slash that UFO 3106 01:55:50,990 --> 01:55:48,659 podcast access it shows add free as well 3107 01:55:54,050 --> 01:55:51,000 please get in touch on Twitter Facebook 3108 01:55:55,810 --> 01:55:54,060 Instagram that UFO podcast of course on 3109 01:55:58,490 --> 01:55:55,820 Twitter it's at 3110 01:56:00,350 --> 01:55:58,500 ufo-u-a-p-a-m and again folks as always 3111 01:56:02,060 --> 01:56:00,360 keep looking up you never know what you 3112 01:56:15,550 --> 01:56:02,070 might see 3113 01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:29,200 me 3114 01:56:29,210 --> 01:56:37,689 [Music] 3115 01:56:37,699 --> 01:56:51,750 I can't imagine 3116 01:56:51,760 --> 01:57:02,890 [Music] 3117 01:57:02,900 --> 01:57:12,970 they thought this was noise 3118 01:58:03,430 --> 01:57:32,750 [Music] 3119 01:58:20,670 --> 01:58:07,220 can't sleep forever